Classified discussion continue

To be hornest, then i don't give a shite if it's 10 or 15£, not long ago i spend 3.5£ a day smoking, so 5£ a year is nothing compared.
I just think it should be on equal terms and if that can not be done there should be a difference in the fee, so i don't mind paying 15£ and UK members could pay 20£ :p

Or you could say, over sees member have to pay the same, due to the extra cost in shipping for the welcome package !!!......members just have to feel they have been treated equal

There have been so many things covered in this topic and when it comes to membership, evaluation and insurrance, it is like this; i'm a member of the Danish vintage car club, my car have been evaluated (20K) and i do get a cheaper inssurance, i could have that inssurance if i were a member of another club. it just have to have a commitee and be located in DK.

Chris
 
With respect Rob - your questions don't inspire me with confidence that The Z Club is going to do anything here about tiered membership !

I see that you're looking for info but I feel also that you're comparing and I don't believe that's right - the circumstances are different so any comparison will lead to false conclusions. Besides, ideas should be springing forth from the committe - not questions.

Sean, I hate the fact that effectively the club is financed by the ones who are prepared to pay the annual subs. I think it should be changed, it is nothing but a nightmare for me and unfair.

Sean I was comparing like with like - I wanted to know if your Datsun Club was run like our Datsun Club!

The committee is here to serve the Members so what's wrong with asking what the Members want?

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When I joined this Club in 1996 there was no internet Forum it was local and national meets and communication was done via the magazine and local rep newsletter. The internet and computers have made communication and quick 'real time' exchange of information to those 'on-line' easy. However to be honest it has complicated things no end and much of our time is spent dealing with technical things and paying for them. I think this is a problem in wider life too, work and clubs are all about staring into PC screens. Also it has caused/enabled this 2 tier system we have.

Our Members who are not on-line pay their subs each year without complaint and they don't even use the Forum. They are the 'old school' guys who want a Membership number for the insurance and to be able to attend a meet every now and again.

The internet, just like emails at work has given people the facility to cause a great deal of unrest and abuse each other.

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My idea is that everyone pays a small annual fee (£5?) to register which covers Club overheads. We already have money in the bank to cover 'up-front' costs for organising meets.

We then simplify the whole Membership System so that Registration automatically prompts for payment via card or Paypal. We record the minimum info about people and can scrap the database if poss. (not even car details are held unless that can be input on Registration). Can V Bulletin do this and is this how other Clubs operate? People just get a Membership Card.

Our 'old school' members pay £5 by cheque for their Membership Card and they are the only ones who get reminders by post.

Now think about that - I need to get on with my Bathroom DIY work.
 
I think we should seriously consider the possibility of reintroducing the magazine.
 
With you as editor ?

Rob - you should seriously limit the use of the post - send reminders by email and sms !
 
I think we should seriously consider the possibility of reintroducing the magazine.

Oh no, please not that old chesnut, Dale you might be joking but someone will pick it up and go "oh yeah"
If so please refer to the multi page discussion over 3 years ago and the numerous "my mate can do it for three and six"..... yes if you want an A5 flyer in black and white.

http://zclub.net/forum/club-matters/11224-major-announcement.html

The mag used to cost the club nearly £15K per year, wheres that coming from and before anyones asks I am in the print industry (and was the editor) so is Jak, we are in touch with costs and no you can't get it cheaper:p
 
Print costs are way up now too thanks to FSC / PEFC and the insider trading by paper merchants. Producing a printed magazine really isn't viable. A downloadable version is though but that has its problems too.
 
But what about all those paid up members that are ont on the net?

The avarage price of a magazine over here is about £5

The question is, how many numbers of the magazine did/do club make a year and what's the price for a car magazine in UK?
 
Producing a magazine is a lot different to buying one. We'd buy enough copies for each paid up member to have a copy with left-overs for if people wanted them. It cost (as Steve mentioned) in the £14k mark to do this 4 times a year. The costs were for designing, printing & posting. If it could've been done cheaper it would've been. Producing a magazine to sell is a minefield of problems too as it would take a couple of issues of not selling any and we'd be heavily in debt (and with a bunch of unwanted magazines).

The paid up membership not on the net seem pretty happy with their lot to be honest, but I'd love for them to feel like they were getting more. As for website members, they have the choice of getting involved for the benefits that being a member of a long-standing club (I'm not gonna repeat them, they're on here in the menu) so if they choose not too then that's their prerogative. They're not doing anything wrong by it. Horses for courses.
 
We have got to be careful here folks - now we are into the magazine discussion. Suggest magazine discussion should 'tag' onto the link Steve Kiddell has given us.
 
Rob, as the subject of the magazine could be seen as what the membership fee pays for then I think it's a natural progression of what's been discussed so far, but if someone wants to move the posts starting from #63 about the magazine to the other thread then by all means do so.

Although it would be lovely, I'm not suggesting we need to go back to exactly the same format the magazine previously was, but the reason I brought it up was I feel it is our duty to have more communication with those members that are not online, and it would be nice for those who are too.

Ok, here are some ideas;

- We don't need it to be quarterly, annually would be fine. That's three quarters of the costs gone.

- It doesn't necessarily need to be as many pages. A small saving on costs?

- It can be sent at the beginning of the year and in the 'same' envelope as the calendar. Saving almost all of the previous postage costs as the calendar postage costs are already budgeted for?

- An important piece of information for our members would be a thorough and concise calendar of event for the upcoming year (ZClub and other Jap or classic shows). This could even be printed on the correct days of the calendar itself?

- The magazine (or posh newsletter if you wish), should contain photos and write-ups from the previous years events. A nice reminder of those who attended or a way of showing those who didn't attend what they missed out on?

- As in the previous magazine, it could contain stories or updates on members projects, etc etc etc...

- A little income could be made from advertising? A trader may have some GRP parts, brake kits, wheels, reproduction bumbers etc that might want to reach the more traditional and offline members who may have some disposable income to treat there car to? ;)

This was always the staple product of any club, and I think an important one which I'd like to see back.

And yes, if I can help with it, then I'm willing to.
 
Ha, I was driving back home thinking about all this !

My idea was to have a bi-monthly (hope I got that right - every two months) newsletter posted to those who don't click on here and on-line for those that do. This can be colour printed or photocopied - what counts is the content - double sided if possible to maximise the information space (can contain ads to help with costs but limited to a 1/4 of the space ie a half A4 if double sided).

Crucial information only - what's going on in the next four months and who to contact ! Also important I believe is a list of important club contacts - local group organisers and those of the committee you deem necessary !

I love the idea of an end of year revue from Dale and it could even replace the calender if costs are really tight - the rear page of the revue could serve as a reminder calender to keep the spirit alive !

Now : membership prices !

I think we've been looking at this all wrong here - we've been looking at UK and foreign membership...........in fact it isn't geographic, it's online and offline !

Offline is obviously almost 99.9% UK domestic and would need the newsletter posted every two months so £15 which is no change for them, they get 6x newsletters and an annual review (but no free calender but why not produce one to sell ? - Doesn't have to be expensive, merely to recover the costs and make a little to warrant the time invested).

Online membership (domestic) : £10 (no newsletter posted but online) but an annual revue and all the traditional benefits as currently enjoyed

Online membership (foreign) : £7 (no newsletter posted but online) and an annual review

Both online memberships (and traders) are allowed access to buy and sell unlimited and 100% access throughout the forum - also gives proxy voting right at AGM -need to encourage people to participate within the club !

Non-online members wishing to sell on the site can pay a £3 one-off fee for a twelve month period during which they may sell as much and as many items as they wish - DO NOT forget that this site offers a dedicated national market and attracts many, many overseas vistors hungry for parts (eh Chris ,) so exploit that exclusivity to the advantage of the club membership and not strangers !

Club members wishing to sell can always contact a local group organiser to place a free ad and inversly can always consult said organisers to know what is for sale - it's called communication and we need more of it !

What's left ? Division of tasks - someone to coordinate, write and perhaps with other help, produce the newsletter - likewise the annual revue with assistance from the newsletter person.

Forum access limited by webmaster according to the above, paypal fee box appears for non online members with a request for £3 - all online members have a cose (made up of their membership number and some digits which allows them to palce ads.

Forum access to people who're not members - can read, can pay to place an advert and that's it !

If people want to ask questions, then either not at all or solely in a membership question 'zone'.

Aside from the immediate above, no right to ask, no right to reply - they must pay their £7 to participate !

This will inevitably reduce forum passage and action BUT it will concentrate what's left between dedicated members and people will come back and people will pay.


Lastly, membership - no need to send anything to online members via the post - membership card can be sent in pdf format, reminders sent via email too - save money on postage and ensure that it's limited to non-online members and the annual revue !
 
You did alot of thinking here Sean, aperently you are a very wise guy, so i assume you can answer this question:
What is the avarage income of the club members?

Chris
 
Who cares ? This isn't a means tested membership fee - it's based upon return for value !
You don't go into your Nissan showroom and ask that they sell you a 370Z cheaper than your neighbour who earns more than you - same here :) !
 
Ok seeing as its up for discussion (again :(), please sift out the facts from the various lines of vitriol below.

As I was editor for over 4 years I feel I can give some insight.

Please don't look at the Mag with rose coloured spectacles, see it for what it was, expensive and a ball ache to produce, with almost no one wanting to submit articles and no thanks either.

1. Once a year or 10 times a year, editing the mag was a hateful, soul destroying shit of a job, it wasn’t unusual for people to occasionally (yeah right) submit work on slate, 8 inch floppy disc, camel hide or anything they could get their hands on, rather than do it right, usually in English so poor, a spotty text speaking adolescent would be ashamed and when you spent 100 hours re writing it, they got the arse because you missed out the bit about aunty Hilda and her begonias. I once had to transcribe 18 A4 pages which were hand written and made no sense what so ever, Plus NO ONE cuts you any slack. I have travelled hundreds and hundreds of miles, spent many £'s of my own money and many hundreds of hours of my own time for what amounts to an arse kicking when its a few days late or god forbid you spelt something wrong or in a font to small for some 80 year old to read, I remember once we used a graphic with colours similar to a well known car manual and all hell broke lose, with a threat of legal action from them, worse thing was we actually sent it to them in the first place and even worse we took it seriously.:rofl:

2. Who then decides what goes in the mag, I used to have ultimate say (yeah right) but once or twice was overruled (for political reasons) on one occasion I had one submitter get quiet irate that I had dared bump his article.....an article I was expected to write from a few camera phone pictures btw.

3. Postage costs, these will go up as the bulk increases, the postage costs alone used to be in the £hundreds,

4. Advertising revenue, we can't even get people to pay for trade subscriptions (other than the one or two regulars) I rang countless traders and they just weren’t interested as we are a tiny little itsy bitsy car marque, potential revenue was marginal.

5. Amount of pages, how many do you think we should have bearing in mind you have to work in pairs.... so that’s cover, contents, calendar, say three car articles, write ups for the previous years events, some coverage of sporting Z's and events, drag challenge, financial report, membership report....hey presto you very quickly have 26 pages, often Jak and I would drop articles to keep it down to this. I would guess that an annual mag would need more than this.
as for a cost saving, the big cost is in creation and postage, actual page count doesn’t increase this massively.

6. Yes we could have someone knock up a few pages in word pad or whatever and get it printed on a John Bull printing kit but it just doesn’t cut it, Jak used to do the artwork for us and as many hours as I spent editing, Jak would spend tweaking the artwork and creating something from nothing.:bow:

As you can tell the 4 years on the job has left me mentally scarred and needing tablets twice a day.

Now stop talking about the hateful thing and move along, nothing to see here :p
 
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