SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
which has what significance today- are we expecting Japanese and better-informed Americans to jump on it ?
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'Big Sam' - Octane magazine test
- Thread starter Albrecht
- Start date
Don't you just want that car! 
I would just love to drive a car which is so well set-up and has so much history.
I would just love to drive a car which is so well set-up and has so much history.
datsun dave
Club Member
Is this out yet ?
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Nick Howell
Active Forum User
Big Sam sale....
Interesting to see the estimates for the auction......
I saw the draft for the Octane article and must say it is pretty good and the photos are excellent. Mark Hales concentrated on the driving experience rather than the works rally history as that was what he was there for, a very talented driver who was asked if he would like to give Sam a serious track assessment. Though I had left instructions on red line limit, warm up procedures, and the fact that the new tyres needed scrubbing in, Mark had not read them. He was sensitive and experienced enough to notice the tyres and to warm up carefully but did not know the red line was 9000 rpm so was changing up at 7200.
Despite that, as I think I have mentioned before, I was told by other people who were there that he put in some seriously good times, 1m 25.6 for instance which is as quick as the best Ferrari GTO's and not quite as fast as some of the best Lola T70's. Certainly quicker than the new Porsche GT3 RS that was circulating.
Eligiblity wise the Classic Touring Car Racing Club would like to see Sam in there HSCC Thunder sports series. All of the standard suspension pick up points are used, as are the roll bar mountings. The works lightweight doors, bootlid and perspex are not eligible in some series but are in others where the silhouette is a primary concern. The wider front and rear wheel arches are not hard to change if so needed. And of course it is eligible for the Classic Le Mans. The stiffness of the main works body shell is what is so crucial, with its different pressings at the rear, and Tim Riley's very meticulous rebuild which give the car such excellent balance. This was what Mark Hales found so outstanding and what will remain whatever format Sam may be changed to in the future.
As an ex works rally car Sam is rare enough, there are very few remaining anywhere in Europe, the USA or Japan, but as an ex-works car that also showed a clean pair of heels to the likes of a works Porsche RS and V8 Morgan's in one season of racing Sam won the hearts of a new band on enthusiasts.
I decided to keep Sam in its Modsports trim as that is how I first saw it and it has been great to see such experienced drivers as Mark Hales, Tony Dron and Win Percy, who was back in the car in 2002, express so much surprise and satisfaction at finding how competitive it still is when driving it today.
A car that went through a similar competition life is DD300, John Chatham's Austin Healey. It started life as UJB143, a works rally car, competed at Le Mans with David Dixon (the "DD" in the numberplate) and John raced it for many years going through the wider and wider wings and modifications for modsports in the '70's, into the classic racing of the '80's when the wings went back to "normal" and it is now rebuilt and racing and Classic rallying as well as competing at the Classic Le Mans. The car sold for over £240,000 a few years ago, then rebuilt again and it shows how much Healeys are rated compared to 240Z's in Europe even though works Z's are rarer, far more sophisticated and enjoyable to drive. ( I had a works Healey for many years before Sam).
If you wanted to build a proper racing replica of Sam today it would cost you more than the estimate. I don't expect Sam to sell for a huge amount in July, but I am pretty sure it will do in a few years time when it its new owner has shown what a good Z is capable of in classic racing or rallying today. I have had some interesting calls about the car so we will have to see. I have had a lot of fun with it and now it is someone else's turn.
Nick
Interesting to see the estimates for the auction......
I saw the draft for the Octane article and must say it is pretty good and the photos are excellent. Mark Hales concentrated on the driving experience rather than the works rally history as that was what he was there for, a very talented driver who was asked if he would like to give Sam a serious track assessment. Though I had left instructions on red line limit, warm up procedures, and the fact that the new tyres needed scrubbing in, Mark had not read them. He was sensitive and experienced enough to notice the tyres and to warm up carefully but did not know the red line was 9000 rpm so was changing up at 7200.
Despite that, as I think I have mentioned before, I was told by other people who were there that he put in some seriously good times, 1m 25.6 for instance which is as quick as the best Ferrari GTO's and not quite as fast as some of the best Lola T70's. Certainly quicker than the new Porsche GT3 RS that was circulating.
Eligiblity wise the Classic Touring Car Racing Club would like to see Sam in there HSCC Thunder sports series. All of the standard suspension pick up points are used, as are the roll bar mountings. The works lightweight doors, bootlid and perspex are not eligible in some series but are in others where the silhouette is a primary concern. The wider front and rear wheel arches are not hard to change if so needed. And of course it is eligible for the Classic Le Mans. The stiffness of the main works body shell is what is so crucial, with its different pressings at the rear, and Tim Riley's very meticulous rebuild which give the car such excellent balance. This was what Mark Hales found so outstanding and what will remain whatever format Sam may be changed to in the future.
As an ex works rally car Sam is rare enough, there are very few remaining anywhere in Europe, the USA or Japan, but as an ex-works car that also showed a clean pair of heels to the likes of a works Porsche RS and V8 Morgan's in one season of racing Sam won the hearts of a new band on enthusiasts.
I decided to keep Sam in its Modsports trim as that is how I first saw it and it has been great to see such experienced drivers as Mark Hales, Tony Dron and Win Percy, who was back in the car in 2002, express so much surprise and satisfaction at finding how competitive it still is when driving it today.
A car that went through a similar competition life is DD300, John Chatham's Austin Healey. It started life as UJB143, a works rally car, competed at Le Mans with David Dixon (the "DD" in the numberplate) and John raced it for many years going through the wider and wider wings and modifications for modsports in the '70's, into the classic racing of the '80's when the wings went back to "normal" and it is now rebuilt and racing and Classic rallying as well as competing at the Classic Le Mans. The car sold for over £240,000 a few years ago, then rebuilt again and it shows how much Healeys are rated compared to 240Z's in Europe even though works Z's are rarer, far more sophisticated and enjoyable to drive. ( I had a works Healey for many years before Sam).
If you wanted to build a proper racing replica of Sam today it would cost you more than the estimate. I don't expect Sam to sell for a huge amount in July, but I am pretty sure it will do in a few years time when it its new owner has shown what a good Z is capable of in classic racing or rallying today. I have had some interesting calls about the car so we will have to see. I have had a lot of fun with it and now it is someone else's turn.
Nick
datsun dave
Club Member
Good luck with the sale Nick.
I've read the Octane article now and I'm sure it will help sell the car. Love the overhead picture!
Those lap times are VERY impressive when you think you are comparing a Datsun with fantastic thoroughbred 'top-end' cars. AND bear in mind that this car has less power than some people on here think they need in their own 240s which will never see a track! In fact I have quite a bit more power in my standard 350Z that I use every day.
It just proves what a well 'set-up', light car can do with a good driver behind the wheel. People always rave about the balance of the 240, even my car (that has never been 'set-up' in it's life) flatters the driver. It is so easy to handle and is a credit to it's original design.
Good luck Nick - it would be fantastic to see this car on the tracks again and especially at Classic Le Mans.
Those lap times are VERY impressive when you think you are comparing a Datsun with fantastic thoroughbred 'top-end' cars. AND bear in mind that this car has less power than some people on here think they need in their own 240s which will never see a track! In fact I have quite a bit more power in my standard 350Z that I use every day.
It just proves what a well 'set-up', light car can do with a good driver behind the wheel. People always rave about the balance of the 240, even my car (that has never been 'set-up' in it's life) flatters the driver. It is so easy to handle and is a credit to it's original design.
Good luck Nick - it would be fantastic to see this car on the tracks again and especially at Classic Le Mans.
Last edited by a moderator:
Nick Howell
Active Forum User
Big Sam sale....
Thanks Rob, yep that overhead photo is wonderful. I like the one with the two inside tyres just off the deck when he was corning hard.
Have you seen the Letters page? It is headed up with a "Felix Petrol" cartoon entitled "Even Bigger Sam"...
Maybe people will start to appreciate 240Zs over here a little more...
Nick
Thanks Rob, yep that overhead photo is wonderful. I like the one with the two inside tyres just off the deck when he was corning hard.
Have you seen the Letters page? It is headed up with a "Felix Petrol" cartoon entitled "Even Bigger Sam"...
Maybe people will start to appreciate 240Zs over here a little more...
Nick
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Said it before elsewhere.......there's a new era coming !
Participations (and sucesses) in high-profile competive events - Safari Rallye, Tour Auto, Spa 6 Hrs, Le Mans Classic, Copenhagen, Monte Carlo, various other ralles and of course in the UK, club racing, FIA rallyes, hill-climbing and the general positive perception of the cars during track-open days.
Nick Howell
Active Forum User
Big Sam sale....
Merci Sean,
How come I didn't know about all these events for 240z's? Maybe because I am living right at one end of this island..............
I guess Sam could be interesting at Classic Le Mans; the Porsche GT3RS driver that said that Mark Hales was pulling away from him on Goodwood's Lavant straight mentioned that he was clocking 148 mph which translates to 237 kph so maybe not too bad.
Like your website; you seem to be pretty much into some interesting Z's Sean.....
Nick
Merci Sean,
How come I didn't know about all these events for 240z's? Maybe because I am living right at one end of this island..............
I guess Sam could be interesting at Classic Le Mans; the Porsche GT3RS driver that said that Mark Hales was pulling away from him on Goodwood's Lavant straight mentioned that he was clocking 148 mph which translates to 237 kph so maybe not too bad.
Like your website; you seem to be pretty much into some interesting Z's Sean.....
Nick
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
It's not geographic Nick - you're probably closer to France and to Africa than most Z owners in the UK........
I love life, I love most Z people but above all, I love the cars. I try to follow the trends, set one or two......and to boost the Z image.
The nicest Z over here will be the GRPIV racer which is designed especially to compete against any and all Porsches in the classic endurance races. A useful spin-off would be a demand for more Z racers built (snow-ball effect) although I'm confident that we'd remain relatively exclusive and exotic compared to other makes in competition !!!
There are other historic rallye and circuit Zs under construction.
For the GrpIV (Europes' only FIA racer ?), the engine, gearbox and limmies are being collected from Stroud next week and the car currently has 16 wheels to cover the front, rear and dry and wet weather. The Count helped source some parts and information and I seriously believe that if people and clubs work together, the Z scene can only explode !
Big Sam would easily be accepted for Le Mans Classic but it remains expensive for the track time allotted albeit it flat out on THE circuit ! A better series are those races in VER or v der v where one can share the drive of 3 - 6 hours for less registration money. After that, the other costs are probably similar.
But I digress, good luck with the sale and I hope that the new owner believes that his value will be enhanced by returing to competition.
Nick - should you want another Z for fun and/or competition, it will be possible in the near future with more clean cars being imported and more availability of performance parts specific S30. You'd be joining an illustrious group of returning owners but you probably know what I mean already - hush, hush.
I love life, I love most Z people but above all, I love the cars. I try to follow the trends, set one or two......and to boost the Z image.
The nicest Z over here will be the GRPIV racer which is designed especially to compete against any and all Porsches in the classic endurance races. A useful spin-off would be a demand for more Z racers built (snow-ball effect) although I'm confident that we'd remain relatively exclusive and exotic compared to other makes in competition !!!
There are other historic rallye and circuit Zs under construction.
For the GrpIV (Europes' only FIA racer ?), the engine, gearbox and limmies are being collected from Stroud next week and the car currently has 16 wheels to cover the front, rear and dry and wet weather. The Count helped source some parts and information and I seriously believe that if people and clubs work together, the Z scene can only explode !
Big Sam would easily be accepted for Le Mans Classic but it remains expensive for the track time allotted albeit it flat out on THE circuit ! A better series are those races in VER or v der v where one can share the drive of 3 - 6 hours for less registration money. After that, the other costs are probably similar.
But I digress, good luck with the sale and I hope that the new owner believes that his value will be enhanced by returing to competition.
Nick - should you want another Z for fun and/or competition, it will be possible in the near future with more clean cars being imported and more availability of performance parts specific S30. You'd be joining an illustrious group of returning owners but you probably know what I mean already - hush, hush.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Big Sam sold for £78,500 - well done Nick a brilliant result!
No I don't know who bought it but they must have a deep pocket - let's hope there is enough money left to race it hard!
It was a master-stroke to get the Octane article written, not only did it enlighten people on what a 240Z can do but hopefully raised the profile of the Marque too
And it hasn't finished yet, this result and owner's plans will be all over the Classic Car world.
Nick, I would imagine you are really pleased to have sold the car so well. You should have no second thoughts now - which you might have had if it went for something like £40K.
It was a master-stroke to get the Octane article written, not only did it enlighten people on what a 240Z can do but hopefully raised the profile of the Marque too
And it hasn't finished yet, this result and owner's plans will be all over the Classic Car world.
Nick, I would imagine you are really pleased to have sold the car so well. You should have no second thoughts now - which you might have had if it went for something like £40K.
Nick Howell
Active Forum User
Big Sam
Thanks Rob, great result and I hope the new owner enjoys using it.
I'm in France at the moment so only heard through you and the Z club the result.
Nick
Thanks Rob, great result and I hope the new owner enjoys using it.
I'm in France at the moment so only heard through you and the Z club the result.
Nick
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
was also a silver 240 that went for over £13000 at same auction