Le Mans Classic 6/7/8 July 2018

Have a great time guys - I'm so jealous.

Rob Crofton - hope he has a good trouble-free weekend. Yes we noticed your 'sticker' Sean. To be driving a 240Z amongst that 'field' of cars i.e. the fastest all weekend, must be exhilarating but scary!

Yes Sean you did advise me to use 6" nails which I did - thank goodness.
 
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SeanDezart said:
Rob Crofton has changed his diff ration from 2016 when he was in 5th just leaving Tertre Rouge so should fly a little faster this year.View attachment 29907
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No disrespect to Rob Crofton, but I wonder (again - as this will be the second time this car has taken part) how the participation of this car is being explained at the event? What does it actually represent?

No S30-series Z took part in the Le Mans 24hrs race in period in that format. Rob Grant failed to qualify with his car, and the ex-Works circuit race Gr.4/5 car which took part in 1975 and 1976 races (and in which Andre Haller lost his life in the 1976 event) was - mechanically and cosmetically - completely different than the Crofton car.

It's wonderful to see cars which actually took part in the LM24 in period driven in anger, and I'm perfectly happy to see 'recreations', 'evocations', replicas or clones of cars that originally took part lining up alongside them (as long as everyone knows what they are), but how does the Crofton car fit into Le Mans 24hr history? I don't get it.

Can anyone explain?
 
Come on now Alan

Why try and dilute a tremendous achievement by a Z Club member by asking what does it represent

IMHO I am totally happy that he is taking part in this

Why do you have to be so pedantic and except that not everybody is worried if a nut was put on an original S30 by a left handed person instead of a right handed worker in the factory

He is promoting the Marque and I am sure all the Z owners who are there are delighted to watch him there on the track
 
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I think Alan's point is directed more towards the event organisers than Rob himself.

In Rob's shoes, if I submitted an entry and it was accepted, I wouldn't complain.

But Peter Auto has not been at all clear !

Michel Gilles was allowed to run his grey 240Z in +/- stock body format but certainly without a G-nose.

I then have written proof from the Peter Auto technical director that only 240Zs in period guise (ie G-nose GrpIV format) would be accepted - this as a refusal for a Dutch/Belgian entry - and then Rob gets allowed in in 2016 !

I don't get it either but the fault lies with Peter Auto and not Rob or Michel Gilles.
 
STEVE BURNS said:
Come on now Alan

Why try and dilute a tremendous achievement by a Z Club member by asking what does it represent

IMHO I am totally happy that he is taking part in this

Why do you have to be so pedantic and except that not everybody is worried if a nut was put on an original S30 by a left handed person instead of a right handed worker in the factory

He is promoting the Marque and I am sure all the Z owners who are there are delighted to watch him there on the track
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This kind of response was inevitable, but it doesn't answer the question I posed. OF COURSE we have to be pragmatic (I think I covered that in my first post) but 'just be happy there's a Z running' is not my idea of promoting the marque. As a matter of fact, I agree with you that this is a "tremendous achievement". Getting a totally inappropriate car into an event that claims to pride itself on historic relevance and accuracy is some feat.

I'll ask the same question a different way: Are there any other cars running in Plateau 6 with the Crofton car that never took part, in period, in the guise they appear in now? Any other cars that are completely different spec/appearance to the period cars they are claiming to 'represent'? When I attended the LMC in 2012 I didn't notice any hugely obvious anomalies, so did I miss something? I see that the car is being called a 240Z but given a date of 1975, so I presume it is being somehow linked to the first actual participation of an HS30 240Z in the 1975 event, and yet it looks nothing like that car and is nothing like it mechanically. And in 'Samuri' colours? Really?

This car looks like a ray gun in a cowboy movie to me...
 
As per usual Alan you start you reply in a nice polite manner and get you point over quite well then you can not resist making a snide and childlike remark
With your tremendous knowledge on all things Zs and you intellect do you have to resort to comments like "This car looks like a ray gun in a cowboy movie to me..."
Or is it just to goad people, who dare to have a different outlook to you, into an argument
 
Well, I'm off to play spacemen and cowboys....wasn't Star Wars just a western in space ?

I'm hoping for a top ten finish.....and there are other plans afoot for a replica (or two) of the '75 car for 2020.
 
STEVE BURNS said:
As per usual Alan you start you reply in a nice polite manner and get you point over quite well then you can not resist making a snide and childlike remark
With your tremendous knowledge on all things Zs and you intellect do you have to resort to comments like "This car looks like a ray gun in a cowboy movie to me..."
Or is it just to goad people, who dare to have a different outlook to you, into an argument
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"Snide"?

If you can explain the presence of this car in the event for me Steve, I'm ALL EARS.
 
Alan, you've brought all this up before. What are you trying to achieve on here by doing so?

If Rob Crofton fitted a replica G-nose would that suffice? I doubt it, I assume the only outcome that would satisfy you is to get the car banned? In order to do that you must approach the organisers with your facts and present a 'case'.

My concern is one of safety and that was an 'issue' in period. Rob's car with great respect will be one of the slowest and there is a huge speed differential between it and the fastest - this is a very quick race category as you know. Also there is a big difference in driver experience and ability which in this category is another issue hence why Derek Bell is not competing (as stated in Motorsport News).

Perhaps the categories should be based on lap times not age of car e.g. the Datsun would be racing with E Types and Aston Martins i.e. road based cars? Should an S30 really be on track with a Porsche 917 going 'full chat'? Or would that get away from what the 'Classic' is all about?
 
Rob Gaskin said:
Alan, you've brought all this up before. What are you trying to achieve on here by doing so?
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How about enlightenment? It's like asking the question is taboo.

I'm just asking how the organising committee are explaining the presence of a car in this spec, and - if you will indulge me - how the spectators watching it going around the track are understanding it. As Sean has alluded to, in previous years Peter Auto have been adamant that all entries must be period correct and relevant, even though they had allowed the Michel Gilles car to take part - presumably because of its period link to Andre Haller. They rejected several entries - including one from Japan with an arguably far more appropriate car - and yet this LHD car in 'Samuri' colours gets another entry when nothing like that ran the LM24 in period.

Rob Gaskin said:
If Rob Crofton fitted a replica G-nose would that suffice? I doubt it, I assume the only outcome that would satisfy you is to get the car banned? In order to do that you must approach the organisers with your facts and present a 'case'.
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"Banned"? "Present a 'case'"?

Rob, I was involved in "presenting a case" to Peter Auto for a far more appropriate car to be considered for an entry in previous years. The car was built in Japan - using many parts of the type originally used at Le Mans in 1975 and 1976, and with great effort to accurately represent the original 1975 entry - and yet it was rejected on grounds that proved the organising committee had no clue what had actually raced in the '75 and '76 events. OK, it's their football pitch and they get to decide who plays, but there doesn't seem to be any consistency. Its baffling.

I'm not interested in getting cars banned. Where does that come from? Seeing as the car in question has an entry - for the second time - I'm just asking for its presence to be explained. If I asked the same question about any other car running alongside it (would you like me to pick a few?) I feel sure I would get a detailed and accurate answer. I don't think "just be happy its there" cuts it in an event that takes its history so seriously.

And if we - as marque and model enthusiasts - don't curate historical accuracy and seek to understand, then who will?

Meanwhile, back in 1975:

 
Rob Gaskin said:
Should an S30 really be on track with a Porsche 917 going 'full chat'? Or would that get away from what the 'Classic' is all about?
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Apropos the above...

It never happened at Le Mans, but S30-series Zs did share track space with a Porsche 917 in period. Lots of other Big Bangers too. Dangerous yes, but an accepted part of mixed-class endurance racing and the Z which took part in the LM24 in 1975 and 1976 would have faced that challenge.

Here's an example from October 1971, the Fuji 250km race:



 
I used to love watching at Arnage at Sunday lunchtime, with a beefburger and beer. The soundtrack of a few GT40s added to the atmosphere. Are status, Tim, and Jake behaving themselves?
 
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I'm with the above - England won and we got to watch someone thrash the nuts off a Z racing at Le Mans. Who gives a toss about anything else?? Oh... Aside from the beer.. Or lack of it... Flippin' fizzy carlsberg crud... What happen to serving a good old pint o' mild!!
 
Well wot a great weekend we had,got home safe and so did Jon I think as I lost sight of him at Dartford,jon was a right hero lending the drive shaft off his car so the Sam could race,my Zed was in the wars from the minute we came off the train,grounded and ripped out exhaust from manifold,my mate mick fixed it so we got to campsite an hour behind schedule,friday we went to the Datsun stand and me a few Zedders,stupid place we had,looks like we had wot was left,I damaged my spoiler coming off up and over the kerb and also more damage to my exhaust,it took us 10 minutes to get off and over the kerb with the help of a few bits of wood,while doing this Kake ripped his exhaust out so my mate mick repaired it on the way back noticed my screen had another three bullet holes to go with the one I picked up on the way down,by this time I’m getting really peed off so I decided not to go during the day on Saturday apologies for that Sean baby but I was not a happy chappy,we did however return in the evening and I ponsed a ride with Tim,didn’t see any Zedders but there were a few Zeds there,we come home today and yes I managed to rip off my exhaust getting on the train,we were given a carriage to ourselves and mick and me fixed it,it got us to the start of my lane and then started to ground out but we got home in the Datsun,it never let us down,the exhaust,windscreen and spoiler damage was not the fault of the Datsun nor the fault of anything or anyone else these things happen so I’ll have it all fixed in the next few weeks cos the Datsun deserves it,great few days with top people nice beer and sum lovely crumpet and a cracking place to stay,
 
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