Spike and samuri new web site

[SKiddell]

I think we all have a healthy respect for what was achieved nearly 40 years ago, let’s not forget that without the driving legend Win Percy, things may have been very different, Win was so good he could have won with many different cars. I do think perhaps Samuris are put on pedestals, endowed with almost supernatural power and speed, when in reality they’re little or no better (performance wise) than many other modified S30’s on here.

On the other hand they have historical importance and that needs to be preserved.

 

[SeanDezart]

I do think perhaps Samuris are put on pedestals, endowed with almost supernatural power and speed, when in reality they’re little or no better (performance wise) than many other modified S30’s on here.

On the other hand they have historical importance and that needs to be preserved.

You mean cars modified 35+ years ago ? Comparing them to cars modified today with all the experience gained since then and from around the world ?They were then, doing it then and I seriously wonder if the following for our cars would be what it is today without the spice that Samuri added ?

A bit like a bland Shepherds' Pie but with brown sauce - eating them on their own is an effort, together it aint bad but the dish has evolved now with better meat, recipes and other ingredients and now it's better than that which was served with sauce. But you all remember the tang of the sauce on your tongue with pleasure.

 

[SKiddell]

As mentioned, in their day they were significant performance vehicles in the UK but we have moved on......a long long way.

A bit like a bland Shepherds' Pie but with brown sauce - eating them on their own is an effort, together it aint bad but the dish has evolved now with better meat, recipes and other ingredients and now it's better than that which was served with sauce. But you all remember the tang of the sauce on your tongue with pleasure.

Kind of Sean

But equally if the "new" Samuri's are being built in the old ways (gas axed springs, die grinding the head whilst still on the car, varying parts rosters, little or no documentation and over carb'd/cammed engines) then they will be no better than the cars being modified today.....or maybe we will see no's 75, 76 or 77 pull a 12 second 1/4.......

Maybe Mr Anderson would like to race for pink slips, oh hang on that would mean him having to come back over to the UK.

Would'nt it be nice to see the modern Samuris as possible hybrids with RB's or JZ's in them...even NA RB30's as a sign of the times with trick gearbox's, decent diffs, trick suspension and loads of other toys....anything other than the same old formula.

And BTW stop digging

and forget about these slaggers here who only know straight lines and safety barriers !

Continue in denial with the usual crap but its one of the oldest and purest forms of racing there is and as we have seen you can have oooodles of power and still lose so there is by inferance a high degree of skill required in that fraction of a second when you are launching, Its a skill set you'll never have even if you went to skills town climbed a skill tree, fell out and hit every branch on the way down.


And before anyone of the 267 Samuri owners comes on and gets a little annoyed, its not aimed at you, I'm just trying to add a little reality.

 

[SeanDezart]

Skidden,

Spike got the press back then - haven't seen your whupper in the mags singing its' praises for all your achievements.............

If racing for pink-slips, why would he HAVE to go back to the UK - can your car not travel distances, eg Barcelona circuit and race each other there ? Ooops, sorry - there are bends and angles there - bit daunting that eh ?

There was nothing 'tricksy' about the Sams then - why should there be now ? They did what they could with what was available, V8s were but they didn't use them so changing from an L to anything else wasn't a Z then and still isn't !

Upgrading from large, heavy brakes to sleek, light Wilwoods is fine, DJR engines is a natural progression from the Silverstone days and beautiful body preperations from Martin finish 'em off.

I'm seriously suprised that no-one else has requested a bespoke modern Samuri and an 'official' number and place on the register............!

Of course we have moved on, once upon a time someone ran a 4 minute mile - still a great acheivement and everybody remembers his name. He'd get whupped today though of course.

"there is by inferance a high degree of skill required"

Me, I still looking forward to the day that we share the same circuit mate where your skill has to last at least a half an hours' session and not rely simply on gadgets, aids and a quick ejaculation.
I haven't driven the bête since July so I'm bound to be rusty - maybe she won't even start.........but don't count upon it.

 

[2fast2z]

But if you do sell elsewhere, don't forget to send me a link so I can have first dibbs before Chris - ta !

Who want's a RHD

 

[JK240]

Well on that note Steve, I wondered if anyone else noticed that among the pictures is a photo of car with the registration SHA 404R which is a 2+2 quite clearly, yet the "official" register shows it as a 240Z.

Just a typo...??

 

[Rob Gaskin]

[Split from another topic]

Spike, Kevin, Dave Jarman, Will Galliers etc were all mates preparing and racing these great cars in their day. Doing so they gained a reputation for developing quick cars and this was topped off with the successes they have. These were good days and what I consider the golden days of Zs. In order to criticise anything Samuri you need to be standing on a very high pedestal. In that era (which I remember well) people were judged by what they did not what paperwork they completed.

Samuri guys worked on their cars developing them with limited resources and got results through good execution and driving.

 

[Albrecht]

Spike, Kevin, Dave Jarman, Will Galliers etc were all mates preparing and racing these great cars in their day. Doing so they gained a reputation for developing quick cars and this was topped off with the successes they have. These were good days and what I consider the golden days of Zs. In order to criticise anything Samuri you need to be standing on a very high pedestal. Mythology, smoke, mirrors what are you actually referring to? I'm assuming record keeping - if you are more interested in record keeping than what they did and how they did it that's a poor show. In that era (which I remember well) people were judged by what they did not what paperwork they completed.

Samuri guys worked on their cars developing them with limited resources and got results through good execution and driving.

May I?

I've got some respect for what 'Samuri Conversions' did in period - chiefly with three cars: 'Big Sam', 'FFA' and 'LAL' (let's be honest, most of the road cars were nothing particularly special were they?) - but find much of the 'legend' doesn't tell the whole story, and especially so with the cars called 'Big Sam'. The history of the 'Big Sam' cars took some sorting out, with a fair bit of wilful nonsense needing to be knocked back into shape (I was honoured to be of assistance to a previous owner in that particular challenge) and it convinced me that quite a lot of tall stories had been swallowed whole over the years.

In recent years there have been efforts to put the 'legend' and its legacy into some kind of order, under the pretence that cars can be authenticated, vouched for and 'certificated'. The authenticity of some of the cars added to the resulting 'register' has been questionable at best and totally farcical at worst. It's a bit of a shambles, isn't it? The people concerned are trying to make order and sense from something that was never ordered in the first place and is a moving target today. It is pretty much impossible to curate the whole story and all the cars. In some cases the desire for kudos and perceived 'added value' seem to be able to rewrite history.

You make 'Samuri' sound like it was just one thing. My impression is that - especially today - it is more than one thing and certainly has more than two groups of people involved in a tug-o-war over the use of its marketable value. Looking in from the outside, sometimes the shenanigans have looked downright seedy. I think the tipping point for me was when I saw the ownership/rights battle played out in letters to a UK Club magazine, and a crass photo of one of the protagonists waving a fan of banknotes was published. Quite extraordinary stuff.

Sometimes I just don't get what defines 'Samuri' activities? If I supplied parts to one of the protagonists you mention, does it mean that I too am some part of this 'Samuri' story? Or was I just helping a friend to get some tricky to find parts for a car that we both have a soft spot for?

And when 'Samuri' get credit for something that was largely the work of other - unsung - people, it's a real shame isn't it?

 

[SeanDezart]

May I?

I've got some respect for what 'Samuri Conversions' did in period - chiefly with three cars: 'Big Sam', 'FFA' and 'LAL' (let's be honest, most of the road cars were nothing particularly special were they?) - but find much of the 'legend' doesn't tell the whole story, and especially so with the cars called 'Big Sam'. The history of the 'Big Sam' cars took some sorting out, with a fair bit of wilful nonsense needing to be knocked back into shape (I was honoured to be of assistance to a previous owner in that particular challenge) and it convinced me that quite a lot of tall stories had been swallowed whole over the years.

In recent years there have been efforts to put the 'legend' and its legacy into some kind of order, under the pretence that cars can be authenticated, vouched for and 'certificated'. The authenticity of some of the cars added to the resulting 'register' has been questionable at best and totally farcical at worst. It's a bit of a shambles, isn't it? The people concerned are trying to make order and sense from something that was never ordered in the first place and is a moving target today. It is pretty much impossible to curate the whole story and all the cars. In some cases the desire for kudos and perceived 'added value' seem to be able to rewrite history.

You make 'Samuri' sound like it was just one thing. My impression is that - especially today - it is more than one thing and certainly has more than two groups of people involved in a tug-o-war over the use of its marketable value. Looking in from the outside, sometimes the shenanigans have looked downright seedy. I think the tipping point for me was when I saw the ownership/rights battle played out in letters to a UK Club magazine, and a crass photo of one of the protagonists waving a fan of banknotes was published. Quite extraordinary stuff.

Sometimes I just don't get what defines 'Samuri' activities? If I supplied parts to one of the protagonists you mention, does it mean that I too am some part of this 'Samuri' story? Or was I just helping a friend to get some tricky to find parts for a car that we both have a soft spot for?

And when 'Samuri' get credit for something that was largely the work of other - unsung - people, it's a real shame isn't it?

Alan - let's keep this in focus, it all happened in a tiny Z market on a tiny island a zillion miles away from the Ginza so in the global, period Z scene ist was a spec ! However...most of you still reside in that spec and so it's just that Z-speak focuses around what happened here, sorry - there !

Samuri road cars nothing special ? Sure, they were 'just' road cars - a few trinkets added and in most cases a shocking colour-combo BUT there were there - an image created, they had been worked upon, owners wanted to go further, spending much more on their Zs than they were worth and they were already silly expensive thanks to quotas and special anti-Jap import taxes. These were people who went against the grain - we have no right to mock them !

Like Rob said, anyone out there 'doing it', making it happen should be praised. Otherwise knock the others doing Zs in the UK, 4ways and MZR for starters, because if we're going to compare them to some of the big Japanses names - they're little players.....so every football team not in the 1st division are rubbish or bravo chaps for keeping going ?

I'm not a Samuri lover or hater but I do accept the fact they ARE part of the Zs' history, however small, part of the UK Zs' history, however it fell apart and they influenced a LOT more that has happened since - the HSCC, Rahail but you probably know more there than I need tell here and most of the improved Zs still going. I won't defend Samuri not attack it...and love or hate the idea, you have to accept that it was and is still around - the influence lasted. That doesn't make it all right but it certainly doesn't make it all wrong either of which you appear to try and convince us.

 

[Albrecht]

You might want to reflect on the root causes as to why the 'Samuri' topic so often raises both hackles, and laughs. I don't know about mirrors, but there's usually a lot of smoke involved when the 'S' word comes up. Quite a lot of that smoke appears to have been blown up the odd, er, bottle over the years.

I'm just waiting for the right time to ebay my stash of ultra rare 'Samuri' parts. I'm not sure we've quite reached peak hype yet...

 

[uk66fastback]

Surely though, all the value is the Sam cars is in the provenance and I think Alan’s point is that there is very little in evidence for a lot of cars ...

 

[SeanDezart]

Surely though, all the value is the Sam cars is in the provenance and I think Alan’s point is that there is very little in evidence for a lot of cars ...

And the point here is ?

The evidence suggests that a lot of cars were prepared and painted in a company livery, some raced and further inspired others to race - I don't see the problem. If it hadn't all collapsed in the late '80s and was still going today, would we be having this exchange ? I think not so Samuri was only every guilty of not delivering for longer on its' promises ? Like jilted lovers, the UK Z fans turn against the only entity that put Zs on the racing circuits and fought against the establishment.....where is the summer of '40 spirit......woeful chaps - should we belittle Janspeed too ?

Whether ultimately justified or not, an aura has grown up (in the UK only) about Samuri aided then (and nw) by the press. It is a fact today and no amount of whinging, sniping or slinging it at fans will change that...short of some historically accurate articles and perhaps even a well publicised S30 book with a chapter on the 'real' truth in the UK.

But since no-one is going to do that - you're all stuck with it and in my view, any publicity is good ! If the press talk about Zs and their desirability soars - that's all good by me.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

And the point here is ?

The evidence suggests that a lot of cars were prepared and painted in a company livery, some raced and further inspired others to race - I don't see the problem. If it hadn't all collapsed in the late '80s and was still going today, would we be having this exchange ? I think not so Samuri was only every guilty of not delivering for longer on its' promises ? Like jilted lovers, the UK Z fans turn against the only entity that put Zs on the racing circuits and fought against the establishment.....where is the summer of '40 spirit......woeful chaps - should we belittle Janspeed too ?

Whether ultimately justified or not, an aura has grown up (in the UK only) about Samuri aided then (and nw) by the press. It is a fact today and no amount of whinging, sniping or slinging it at fans will change that...short of some historically accurate articles and perhaps even a well publicised S30 book with a chapter on the 'real' truth in the UK.

But since no-one is going to do that - you're all stuck with it and in my view, any publicity is good ! If the press talk about Zs and their desirability soars - that's all good by me.

I’ve said before there’s 3 or so samuri that I do enjoy the history of, what they did and how they did it.

I was nearly pointing out facts. Just like the re-hash of the samuri ‘brand’, where thread titles have to be changed and pictures show none Uk market body shells or i’d Guess ‘replacement NOS repair panels’ etc etc etc

https://zclub.net/community/index.p...s-samuri-240z-racer-nearing-completion.25236/



https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/samuri-motor-company-pricing.25230/

So to myself the smoke machine is being refilled and the mirrors polished.

 

[SeanDezart]

I’ve said before there’s 3 or so samuri that I do enjoy the history of, what they did and how they did it.

I was nearly pointing out facts. Just like the re-hash of the samuri ‘brand’, where thread titles have to be changed and pictures show none Uk market body shells or i’d Guess ‘replacement NOS repair panels’ etc etc etc

You're beginning to quote Alan, word for word !

What both of you seem to have (conveniently ?) forgotten is that those 3x......and frankly there are several more that raced but don't get the same limelight.....those 3x were only part of the story ! Alan consistently tells us that in order to love our Zs, we cannot disassoicate them from the rest of the cars Nissan was producing and ultimately selling alongside the Z here in Europe (alright, the UK for the leave voters) under the Datsun badge !

Nor can you ignore the road cars and all the other cars that had some form of Sammy treatment and also the selling of parts, mechanical, bodywork, wheels.....it's ALL part of the story just as Dick Barbour racing, BRE - different scale perhaps but dodn't the British love the underdog, the railway-arch garage national racing, getting their cars in the press, club racing - stirring others to continue racing and development.....! It has all added to create a story and I don't understand the continued attacks ? In th end you're both only fanning the flames to keep the Samuri name alive and in the forefront of peoples' minds which seems counter-productive to your wishes.

So there are LHD shells ? Read again Will Galliers' ebay advert text...he's been bringing these in since 1982....to and for whom do you think ? How many UK V5 cars then do you think are still original RHD shells ? Wake up chaps - nothing is new and uninvented - MZR are using LHD shells and I bet many other Z 'specialists' based in the UK and taken that route too.

 

[Albrecht]

If you've got 15 minutes spare, here's a pretty good example of 'Samuri'-related half-truths and biased opinions to remind yourself of how this stuff plays out In Real Life:

https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/one-former-keeper.19312/

For me, it's the perfect example of what I'm talking about when I refer to the shambolic way that the 'Samuri' legacy is handled.

 

[Albrecht]

You're beginning to quote Alan, word for word !

Well, quoting truth doesn't hurt does it? But if you're pointing specifically at his mention of 'Big Sam', 'FFA' and 'LAL' as Samuri's Holy Trinity then what's the problem? Would you point at any other 'Samuri' related car as being more important to the RHS/Samuri Conversions story than those?

.....it's ALL part of the story just as Dick Barbour racing, BRE...

Have I cured you of your anti-Porsche bias? Probably not. Perhaps you might like to remind yourself what brand Dick Barbour was associated with.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

You're beginning to quote Alan, word for word !

What both of you seem to have (conveniently ?) forgotten is that those 3x......and frankly there are several more that raced but don't get the same limelight.....those 3x were only part of the story ! Alan consistently tells us that in order to love our Zs, we cannot disassoicate them from the rest of the cars Nissan was producing and ultimately selling alongside the Z here in Europe (alright, the UK for the leave voters) under the Datsun badge !

Nor can you ignore the road cars and all the other cars that had some form of Sammy treatment and also the selling of parts, mechanical, bodywork, wheels.....it's ALL part of the story just as Dick Barbour racing, BRE - different scale perhaps but dodn't the British love the underdog, the railway-arch garage national racing, getting their cars in the press, club racing - stirring others to continue racing and development.....! It has all added to create a story and I don't understand the continued attacks ? In th end you're both only fanning the flames to keep the Samuri name alive and in the forefront of peoples' minds which seems counter-productive to your wishes.

So there are LHD shells ? Read again Will Galliers' ebay advert text...he's been bringing these in since 1982....to and for whom do you think ? How many UK V5 cars then do you think are still original RHD shells ? Wake up chaps - nothing is new and uninvented - MZR are using LHD shells and I bet many other Z 'specialists' based in the UK and taken that route too.

And yet your fling some dirt at only one 'cos it suits you.....just whom are you trying to manipulate the paur of you with your half-truths and biased opinions.

C'mon, get real, accept what is, let it be and move on.

Yeah Jason.....coming over to see it in mid-April.

Just to add some detail, you can see threads from 2017 where I said I value the historic few cars, just so you can be clear that I've got my own thoughts, even if you might think I was directly quoting Alan

https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/samuri.23112/page-2

 

[nospark]

The letters in question were published in The Classic Z Register Magazine.

The first was Autumn 1997 Volume 10 Number 2 Page 18. A Mr Anderson wrote to the editor on 8/5/97. The letter is accompanied by a photo showing Mr Anderson holding a wadge of money in his left hand and giving a Churchillian/Harvey Smith salute to the camera with his right hand and a broad grin.

The second letter was from Mr Kevin Irons published in the Winter 1997 issue of the magazine (page 16) clarifying the situation from his point of view.

I have both copies of the mags. As they are now samuri related memorabilia they must be worth a fortune ! I trust this information clears up the debate.

 

[Albrecht]

The letters in question were published in The Classic Z Register Magazine.

The first was Autumn 1997 Volume 10 Number 2 Page 18. A Mr Anderson wrote to the editor on 8/5/97. The letter is accompanied by a photo showing Mr Anderson holding a wadge of money in his left hand and giving a Churchillian/Harvey Smith salute to the camera with his right hand and a broad grin.

The second letter was from Mr Kevin Irons published in the Winter 1997 issue of the magazine (page 16) clarifying the situation from his point of view.

I have both copies of the mags. As they are now samuri related memorabilia they must be worth a fortune ! I trust this information clears up the debate.

Thank you!

 

[SeanDezart]

Oops - this didn't upload !

Looks like the beginning of MSA.