Spike and samuri new web site

[Albrecht]

Dick Barbour, yep, I’ve been to Le Mans too but here is a 35x page Datsun parts catalogue from….

I think it's fair to say that Dick Barbour is synonymous with the Porsche marque: https://www.dickbarbourperformance.com/DickBarbour.aspx

Then ad doesn’t mention Samuri at all so how have we got here please ?

The write-up for the 4/70 HLS30U also being sold currently on ebay by the same seller (as mentioned, it looks like a good car at a reasonable price to me) gives the 'Samuri' connection, the mention of which started the ball rolling:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Datsun-2...352240?hash=item364942db30:g:D20AAOSwJj9cf7VO

Keep up at the back...

Alan, you’re flitting around subjects like a butterfly-wtf has Pauls’ car (whatever it is or isn’t got to do with the car from Galliers and the rest of this evloved thread ?

Looks to me like you've been very active on this thread without realising what was being discussed in its evolution.

Heads-up: Post #12 in the thread pretty much lit the blue touch paper. At the very least, it's clear that some people are willing to embrace the positives about 'Samuri' whilst turning a blind eye to many of the negatives. If you don't see the relevance to what I'll call 'Samuri Shenanigans' in the thread I cited and the car concerned, then there's little hope of the penny dropping.

 

[8658kv]

May I?

I've got some respect for what 'Samuri Conversions' did in period - chiefly with three cars: 'Big Sam', 'FFA' and 'LAL' (let's be honest, most of the road cars were nothing particularly special were they?)

You include 'FFA' as a special car, yet initially Spike based all his " nothing particularly special " cars on this concept.

Out of interest when you wrote " nothing particularly special " about the road cars, were you comparing to other Z's of the time or other marques.
Even making comparisons about modern cars. And I assume with your great knowledge on the Samuri subject, you've owned a Samuri to make the comparison.

As you brought the letters from Spike and Kevin to every ones attention , I have another question.

In Spike's letter he has sold the Samuri brand to William Galliers.

In Kevins letter, he claims ownership along with Ross of the Samuri brand.

Therefore I believe the latter to be correct... Which would now imply the last three Samuri to be built are not Samuri at all, what do you think?

SUX in Russia, oh dear, another huge can of worms.

I have bought a car from William in the past, and a friend of mine bought another with the SUX prefix back in the early 90's.

Steve

 

[Albrecht]

You include 'FFA' as a special car, yet initially Spike based all his " nothing particularly special " cars on this concept.

I consider 'FFA' to be significant in the RHS/'Samuri' story because it was covered so comprehensively in the specialist press in period. It also took part in some races. And it evolved. Yes, initially it was a fairly simple formula (especially when it was still on Midland Metallic wheels) and - to my mind at least - showed that the basic Nissan product in European/UK market specification - was an effective device. From the UK perspective, we could say that it is a significant car.

Out of interest when you wrote " nothing particularly special " about the road cars, were you comparing to other Z's of the time or other marques.

More than that. I consider the majority of 'Samuri' converted cars as mechanical bolt-ons, but my comparison would be with what was available from the factory. From Nissan. From 1969.

As you brought the letters from Spike and Kevin to every ones attention , I have another question.

In Spike's letter he has sold the Samuri brand to William Galliers.

In Kevins letter, he claims ownership along with Ross of the Samuri brand.

Therefore I believe the latter to be correct... Which would now imply the last three Samuri to be built are not Samuri at all, what do you think?

I don't really care one way or the other. There are certainly more than three that have been "built" in recent years anyway. Some of them have even been "authenticated". For me it's all part of the shambles, and one I don't care much about until people start claiming they have period factory race parts as part of the structure in their recently built cars. Then I'll pipe up.

I have bought a car from William in the past, and a friend of mine bought another with the SUX prefix back in the early 90's.

I wish William good luck with both sales.

'SUX' prefix is quite common - along with 'TAW' - as a DVLA issue for imported cars of that build period. They are fairly meaningless apart from the fact that they denote the import of a period car from abroad.

For the record, I have no negative feeling or intent to William Galliers (he seems to source and supply good cars on the whole) or to Kevin Irons. I wish them both good health and good luck in their endeavours.

 

[SeanDezart]

Jeez, Samuri cars were bolt-ons...and ? So ?

So this isn't a Samuri ?

http://www.thedrive.com/vintage/1859/super-samuri-english-for-the-ultimate-z-car

and this one sold at £46k is just a lousy paintjob with a few go-faster bits on it ? https://www.classiccarratings.com/a...3001904-nec-classic-motor-show-sale-2017-1257

the market thinks otherwise......

 

[8658kv]

More than that. I consider the majority of 'Samuri' converted cars as mechanical bolt-ons, but my comparison would be with what was available from the factory. From Nissan. From 1969..

How can you compare on paper? If you haven't driven a Samuri with its bolt on parts how would you know the difference.
Available from the factory.. maybe not completely fair, if available to the UK, then compare away.

If you take a standard 240z UK car from 1973 ( when Samuri started ). Fantastic car way ahead of its time. Then you take a Samuri, with its bolt on parts, set of triple Webers, manifold etc, handmade front spoiler, suspension upgrade, Janspeed exhaust, even wider wheels and tyre profile,brake upgrade, flashy 70's paint job. We mustn't forget the achievement of sourcing these parts. All of these upgrade weren't off the shelf or one click away on the internet.

I think its a shame now, Spike didn't think 40+ years ahead, and let Win take a standard car around the track so we could compare more accurately.

If you ever fancy having a drive of a proper 70's Samuri with bolt on parts, "nothing particularly special" you're quite welcome to borrow mine.

Another question for you. Why do you think Nissan didn't get behind the Samuri brand, from a racing point of view?

 

[Albrecht]

Another question for you. Why do you think Nissan didn't get behind the Samuri brand, from a racing point of view?

Why would they? Genuine question. It was nothing to do with them, after all.

And if they did "get behind" it, how would it work? Nissan had both their own domestic/international race & rally activities and their own chosen partners in international racing, and it was all part of a global strategy that included their international satellite operations. By the time RHS/Samuri Conversions actually had a viable product/service to sell (let's say the end of 1973, for the sake of argument) their shop window consisted of 'FFA', a 240Z. A model that Nissan had just superseded...

Nissan product was being sold in the UK by Octav Botnar's 'Datsun UK' operation, a concessionaire. I don't know the full ins and outs of it, but I've heard that either Spike A or Bob G, or even both of them, had made overtures of some form to Datsun UK at Worthing but got nothing from them. It's hardly surprising considering Botnar's mean reputation. Nissan's own works rally team got little to nothing from his operation.

Nissan did get involved a little later with Janspeed (mostly through Nissan's Netherlands operation) and with Andy Dawson, of course.

If you are aware of anybody from RHS/Samuri approaching Nissan Motors Japan with a viable proposal, I'm all ears.

No offence, but I haven't got time to answer the rest of your post. I'm off to bed.

 

[8658kv]

So this isn't a Samuri ?

http://www.thedrive.com/vintage/1859/super-samuri-english-for-the-ultimate-z-car

and this one sold at £46k is just a lousy paintjob with a few go-faster bits on it ? https://www.classiccarratings.com/a...3001904-nec-classic-motor-show-sale-2017-1257

Sean

Couldn't open the first link. ( something to do with wrong country.. or Brexit ).

The second link, probably not very helpful. The question I would ask ( and I did view the car at auction ). With more attention to detail and a pair of Euro spec rear lights, instead of the US ones. How much more would the car have achieved?

Steve

 

[8658kv]

Why would they? Genuine question. It was nothing to do with them, after all.

And if they did "get behind" it, how would it work? Nissan had both their own domestic/international race & rally activities and their own chosen partners in international racing, and it was all part of a global strategy that included their international satellite operations. By the time RHS/Samuri Conversions actually had a viable product/service to sell (let's say the end of 1973, for the sake of argument) their shop window consisted of 'FFA', a 240Z. A model that Nissan had just superseded...

Nissan product was being sold in the UK by Octav Botnar's 'Datsun UK' operation, a concessionaire. I don't know the full ins and outs of it, but I've heard that either Spike A or Bob G, or even both of them, had made overtures of some form to Datsun UK at Worthing but got nothing from them. It's hardly surprising considering Botnar's mean reputation. Nissan's own works rally team got little to nothing from his operation.

Nissan did get involved a little later with Janspeed (mostly through Nissan's Netherlands operation) and with Andy Dawson, of course.

If you are aware of anybody from RHS/Samuri approaching Nissan Motors Japan with a viable proposal, I'm all ears.

I didn't have a smart answer, hence the genuine question.

I thought as simple as some form of sponsorship, maybe supplying engines, wheels tyres or even works bodyshells!

Looked into Octav Botnar a few years ago, he had an interesting life, no wonder he was mean. Did a lot of good with the Botnar foundation.

 

[Mr Ex Jnr]

I have so much love for the samuri

They did a impressive job competing against other classic cars and really showed them up

I would of liked to of seen all the samuri racing back in the days would been good

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

I didn't have a smart answer, hence the genuine question.

I thought as simple as some form of sponsorship, maybe supplying engines, wheels tyres or even works bodyshells!

Looked into Octav Botnar a few years ago, he had an interesting life, no wonder he was mean. Did a lot of good with the Botnar foundation.

It'd be interesting to know roughly how many 'works' bodyshells there were? From my very limited knowledge on it, I think they were passed around between teams and from one spec to another, ie rally to road race. However its quite likely that I'm wrong altogether.

 

[Albrecht]

It'd be interesting to know roughly how many 'works' bodyshells there were? From my very limited knowledge on it, I think they were passed around between teams and from one spec to another, ie rally to road race.

No full Works S30-series bodyshells were sold - as new bodyshells - to the general public or to privateer race teams.

However, some Works S30-series rally cars/bodyshells, and a handful of Works S30-series circuit race cars did make their way into private hands after their Works use ended. This was largely unplanned and rather a case of Force Majeure (especially so in the situation where cars had been taken outside Japan on temporary-import/export carnets), as Nissan had no actual mechanism for selling their Works S30s in this way. It actually caused quite a lot of consternation back in Japan.

Some of the ex-Works rally cars ended up being used for circuit racing. These stories need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Big topic!

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

No full Works S30-series bodyshells were sold - as new bodyshells - to the general public or to privateer race teams.

However, some Works S30-series rally cars/bodyshells, and a handful of Works S30-series circuit race cars did make their way into private hands after their Works use ended. This was largely unplanned and rather a case of Force Majeure (especially so in the situation where cars had been taken outside Japan on temporary-import/export carnets), as Nissan had no actual mechanism for selling their Works S30s in this way. It actually caused quite a lot of consternation back in Japan.

Some of the ex-Works rally cars ended up being used for circuit racing. These stories need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Big topic!

I'll take that as 40% correct!

HRC use to take all oft their 'factory' items back to Japan and crush them.

Does all this feed into the South Africa story? Did Nissan produce 'works spec' repair parts for these shells?

 

[Albrecht]

Does all this feed into the South Africa story? Did Nissan produce 'works spec' repair parts for these shells?

Yes, the story around the two Works cars that raced at Kyalami is a good example (one of them ending up being raced at Le Mans in 1975 and 1976, without Nissan's blessing...) and it's all interwoven with other threads, including the 1973 'Oil Shock' and what was going on back in Japan during the period. Like I say, big topic.

No, Nissan never produced or sold 'works spec' bodyshell parts for these cars. However, they did make and sell 'Nissan Sports/Race Option' parts for the cars - and these were made available to the general public via Nissan's dedicated publications. Key point is that these parts were normally either quite different, or subtly different, than the parts and specs the Works teams themselves were using. You could consider them 'one step down' from the actual Works parts in many respects.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

I follow.