Series 1 240Z's (USA Imports)

Originally posted by SeanDezart
Carl,
My UK ex-73 car had niether of the following that you state for post '72 cars - are you sure that all changes were applicable to all markets ?
Auto Seat Belt Retractors (after Jan.72)
Seat Belt Warning Buzzer & Seat Belt Warning Light (after Jan.72)
Aren't these strictly US changes ?

Abas,
series 4 cars now ???
Click to expand...


Hi Sean (everyone):
Part of the fun of the DATSUN 240-Z "trivial search" - is finding minute pieces of information, then trying to track them down to verifiable facts.

No, I am not certain that all changes were applicable to all markets. We don't have enough data points or reports from HS30 owners yet, related to what was OEM Standard equipment on the various models. The Nissan Service Bulletins that I do have copies of simply list both the HS30 and HLS30 as the applicable models. They do list certain specification differences for things like battery size or final drive ratio's etc. where there are differences.

Your input will be recorded... and we'll hope to hear from more of the HS30 owners. It would not surprise me at all if the Seat Belt Warning Buzzer and Light were US only items (stupid idea to begin with - most customers disconnected them within the first week of ownership;-) The self retracting seat belts were a pretty popular improvement however, so I'd expect to see them on all the cars.

kind regards,
Carl

Carl Beck
Clearwater, FL USA
http://ZHome.com
 
Re: Enguine Number.

Originally posted by MaximG
Hi Nigel and Carl,

My enguine number is L24110443.

If it is of any interest my wiring loom would appear to be from a late model S30 series car. I use the word series as that is what is stated in the Haynes manual.

All good fun this. ;)

Oh and the date of registration was 20/10/72. So not far out Carl.
Click to expand...


Hi MaximG and Nigel;
That engine number (110443) lines up with a build date of 06/72 for the HLS30's.

As I have mentioned before, from the sample data we have gathered, it would appear that groups of L24 engines coming off the engine assembly lines, were transported to the automotive production line in groups of aprox. 500... these engines got mixed around in transport, in holding area's as they made their way to the auto production lines - so they were not installed in cars in the perfect sequential order that they came off the engine production line. Nonetheless, when viewed over a period of a month or two.. or viewed over the entire production run from 10/69 through 08/73... the engine numbers do progress in serial fashion in the thousand unit groups. (there are of course always exceptions that prove the rule;)

Could your engine have been pushed off to the side of the assembly line, for some minor problem to be rectified, only to be installed in a car a month later?.... it's possible, but given that the automotive production lines were running at full capacity to meet demand by mid 1972... it's unlikely any engine would sit around for long.. without being put in serviceable condition and feed back into the assembly line.

While production of the Left Hand Drive DATSUN 240-Z's was running at just over 4,385 units per month on average (52,628 for the year)... from the preliminary data points we have ... it would seem that every one-in-awhile a group of about 400 Right Hand Drive units would be produced (5,425 for the year, 549 sent to GB). This would mean that for a day or two.. Nissan would run Right Hand Drive units on the assembly line.. then convert back to the Left Hand Drive units.

I base the above conjecture from personal experience working on a production line, and years later working as an Industrial Consultant in manufacturing and production environments. As well as an analysis of the clustering of data points we have collected. I freely admit - at this point it's simply my observations of the data.

So we can see that Nigel's car, while close in chassis number for Right Hand Drive models
HS30 11758 minus HS30 10899 equals 859 units in the series

...is in fact months earlier in production date based on engine serial numbers..
L24-110443 minus L24-89580 equals 20,863 units..

Looking at the reported first registration dates.. it all seems to line up as well.

FWIW,
Carl
Z Club Membership Number 260
IZCC Membership Number 260
ZCAR Membership Number 260
ZCOOR #02
 
Originally posted by abas
Maximg

does your car have intermittent setting on the wipers? How about flattop carbs?

If so it would have the spec associated with one if the first 'series 4' cars.


cheers


Andrew
Click to expand...

Hi Andrew:
The Series IV HLS30 DATSUN 240-Z's started with chassis numbers starting with HLS30-120001, with production starting in 08/72.

Based on the few data points we have - it would appear that the Series IV HS30 DATSUN 240-Z's started with chassis numbers starting at: HS30-100500, with production starting 01/73.

FWIW,
Carl


Carl Beck
Clearwater, FL USA
http://ZHome.com
 
Carl,
My 1973 HLS 30 from your side has the illuminated ventilation display and the retractor seat belts (going into the floor) but no wiring for the seat belt warning buzzer or light and I repeat that my ex UK HS 30 had no retractor seatbelts as standard but had it's seatbelts fitted in the UK !
 
Hi Everyone,

Sorry for the short delay in posting, decorating (got to keep the wife happy ;)

To give you a run down on the car spec.

It does not have intermittent setting on the wipers or flattop carbs.

It does have a heated rear windscreen and the modified diff.

It for some reason does not have an E88 head. It has an earlier version for some reason. All though I cant remember which one off the top of my head.
 
Hi Nigel,

Yes that would be the one. A bit of a pane really as by all accounts it doesn’t run to well on unleaded petrol. Hence the E88 head in the garage waiting to go on.
 
Hi Guys:
Both the E31 and E88 have soft valve seats (used for leaded fuels).. If you have the valves done, just ask that hardened steel seats be installed for unleaded fuel.

Before you put money/time into the E31 - have a good machine shop check it over carefully. The E31's are know to have problems with micro cracks around the exhaust valve seats. Most machine shops can pressure check the head before putting a lot of work into them.

Be aware that there were two heads marked E88 one used on the L24 and the later type used on the L26. If you do wind up reusing the E88 make sure you have the earlier type, better squelch area and flow than the later "emissions" head.
<a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/E31andE88Heads.htm>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/E31andE88Heads.htm</a>

FWIW,
Carl
 
Hey guys, I have a series 0, with loadza vents/holes. bet someone has series -0.
Ok im being a silly billy cos im bored waiting for my 240 to be completed. Best take a browse on ebay and see if i can get sniped. Talking of ebay, i recently bid on front bumper and won, trouble was the seller didnt stipulate she wouldnt post to old blighty, as if we care. damn yanks, give us ya spares, we gave you our language and culture.
 
Originally posted by Zbirdy
Talking of ebay, i recently bid on front bumper and won, trouble was the seller didnt stipulate she wouldnt post to old blighty, as if we care. damn yanks, give us ya spares, we gave you our language and culture.
Click to expand...

I had the same problem, as the bumper is 65 inches in length which is 5 inches too long for USPS shipping.

Mr F posted a little while back about shipping some bumpers to the UK in one of his containers. As I understand it he is waiting for his suppliers to get their stock of bumpers in.

cheers



Andrew
 
It seems obvious to me but when I'm bidding for parts (even if the seller marks shipping worldwide) I ask if they'll ship them to me here in France. Takes a bit of extra time before I can bid but is generally appreciated.

I know someone over here who bragged about his rare E31 head and he has had an enormously long list of set up problems where normally he shouldn't have.......
 
Originally posted by Carl Beck
Hi Guys:


Be aware that there were two heads marked E88 one used on the L24 and the later type used on the L26. If you do wind up reusing the E88 make sure you have the earlier type, better squelch area and flow than the later "emissions" head.

FWIW,
Carl
Click to expand...

Presumably some/all of the limitations of the later E88 head can be got round if the head is being ported and flowed anyway?


Andrew
 
Hi Andrew (everyone):
First a correction to an earlier statement:
I said "Be aware that there were two heads marked E88 one used on the L24 and the later type used on the L26"

Correctly stated it should read; Be aware that there are three heads marked E88. The first as used on the Series III (1972 Model Year) L24's. The second as used on the Series IV (1973 Model Year) and the Third as used on the 260Z. The Second and Third Type have the combustion chambers designed for reduced emissions, and lower compression ratios due to increased combustion chamber volumes {44.7cc vs 47.8cc}. This applies to North American spec.' cars.... I do not know if they are exactly the same as the Euro-spec cars. { but it would be interesting to know }

Granted that the Head Speciality Shops can work wonders with almost anything as a starting point. I'd also say that if you are starting with a bad combustion chamber design {bad for performance}, then you'd want an experienced head specialist to be doing the reshaping /redesign work. It's only money... ;-)

On a scale of 1 to 10. 10 being the most work. Port matching is at most a 2, but significantly changing the shape of the combustion chamber would be a 8.5. Removing existing material from the combustion chambers is always less work than welding in new material and then final shaping it.

For a stock or near stock engine, given the choice of the early or the two late E88's, I'd spend some time looking for an early E88 to put some limited amount of work into.

Port matching, increased valve size and valve relief seem to be the most cost effective details to watch, without going overboard on costs. If you go to larger valves, then you also have to "eyebrow" the edge of the cylinder on the L24 block, unless you are over-boring the block to begin with. The E88 here in the States used on the 260Z {the third type} had a larger exhaust valve {35mm vs 33mm}... so the L26 blocks came from the factory with the "eyebrow" cuts on the cylinders.

If you want larger valves... and "IF" you can find one, the N42 head from the 75/77 280Z has the same combustion chamber shape as the E31/early E88 and combustion chamber volume. So it is a good direct bolt-on, alternative that doesn't require a lot of head work.

Lastly - I took MaximG's statement to mean he was concerned about the valve seats as it related to unleaded fuels...... As I re-read his statement, he could have been referring to the lower compression ratio of the later two types of E88's as being a good thing for poor quality or low octane gasoline. In that regard the lower compression ratios of the later two E88's - might be more desirable than retarding the timing.

In any case remember that all these castings are 30+ years old... have them carefully inspected BEFORE you put a lot of time and machine work into them.


FWIW,
Carl


Carl Beck
Clearwater, FL USA
http://ZHome.com
 
Andrew wrote:
"I had the same problem, as the bumper is 65 inches in length which is 5 inches too long for USPS shipping."

Hi Andrew (everyone):
A Z Car friend from Northern Ireland solved that problem. While visiting here in Florida he gave me a call and came on over to our house. Not only did we get to spend a pleasant day with him and his family.... he hand carried a brand new rear and front bumper from my spare stock - back home on the plane with him. They told him he could "check" anything that was less than 68 inches in length.

Given the competitive air fares we enjoy today - it might be less costly to book a round trip ticket to the States and pack a lot of stuff back home with you. Also, it's always a good idea to check the shipping rates for direct air cargo with airlines that service local airports. You have to drop the items off at their air terminals and on the receiving end someone has to pick them up at their air terminals... but sometimes the rates are amazingly low compared to the normal shipping companies.

FWIW,
Carl
 
Going back to the 'series' Zs, I see that it's on ebay that most references are made to the different series types, presumably to save typing the different design changes !

So, perhaps it's just a commercial thing - when was the first reference made to series and by whom ? I've been into Zs for 16 years and this thread was the first time I've seen them mentioned !
 
Hi Sean:
I don't have a clue as to who was first to use the Series designations with the DATSUN 240-Z's, but I can say they didn't invent anything new.

I can tell you that when the "Late Model Year 1971 240-Z's came into the States after Jan. 1971... everyone I knew in the Z Car Community, referred to the now different 1971 Model Year cars as "Series I" and/or "Series II" models. {because Nissan sold both Models as 1971 Model Year Automobiles}. {there is an even longer story about that situation... best left to a thread on automotive history}

The use of Series designations for specific models of cars, as well as their component parts, was in common use in the Classic, Collectible and Special Interest Automobile hobby, at least at the time I first noticed "Sports Cars".. (early 50's) and well before that.

If you pick up almost any book related to the history of the Automobile or devoted to Classic, Collectible and Special Interest Cars and leaf though it; you'll most likely see many references to specific "Series" of many cars/designs.

Many times the Manufacturers themselves used a Series Number to describe the car. The DATSUN 240-Z is a Series designation base on engine volume, just as the DATSUN 260Z and DATSUN 280Z are. Many times the Customer's themselves assign a Series Number to help specifically identify certain configurations that are of special interest to them within any one Manufacturers Series.

For example:
From: "COMPLETE BOOK OF COLLECTIBLE CARS"
By: Langworth, Robson and the Editors of CONSUMER GUIDE
Published 1982, ISBN 0-517-34694X

You can hardly get through the first few pages when you see references in the History of the AMC Metropolitan such as ..."powered by Series 56 1500cc Austin four.." A few pages more and you see "Buick Series 60 Century {40-41} and the "Series 70 Roadmaster Convertible Coupe {1942}. Cadillac Series 90 ... ect.

"Series" designations or designators have been applied to help identify "Models", "Engines" and Special bodies. If all that held basically the same, then Series designations were applied to points of major improvements or changes.

Have you seen a Citroen DS 19 /20 /21 /23 lately? Produced from 1955 though 1975? Would you know the difference between them if you did see one? ;-) You can bet that the Citroen enthusiasts would know...

The 1954 Alfa Romeo for example used a few "terms" then somewhat new. They used the term "SS" for their short wheel base, lightweight models, the Bertone-styled "SS" and "SZ" by Zagato. "SS" standing for Special Series and "SZ" standing for Special Zagato. {Many years later Chevy used "SS" to stand for Sport Series, which promptly got converted to "Super Sports" by the marketing people}.

The Lotus Elan progressed through five different Series between 1962 and 1973, designated S1 in 62 through S4 in 71, with the fifth Series designated "Elan Sprint".

The bottom line is that the use of Series designations is as you mention, a sort of "short-hand" both within the Automotive Industry and among auto enthusiasts the world over. It's a way of conveying much specific information in very few words, as well as a way of describing accurately, which specific model/type/configuration automobile you are referring to.

Automotive Series designations are also a sort of "Professional Jargon"... the Marque Enthusiasts that are "in the know" use them between/among one another no matter the Marque nor where it is located.


FWIW,
Carl



Carl Beck
Clearwater, FL USA
http://ZHome.com
 
Jesus!!

All this technical stuff does my simple head in. series 1,2,3,4, vents here, vents there, flat top carbs.
I tell you why I bought my 240z, cos I loved the lines and shape of the thing, and I saw one when when I was a kid. Im not so bothered bout the technical stuff. Am I an anorak? cos I dont know bout this stuff, or is the z fraternity always like this? When my Z is ready, I would be really happy if a little kid came up and said hey Mister, where dya get that car? what is it?. This is what would give me a buzz, thinking, maybe another youngster might get the z bug.

Does this sort of ideology mean anything to you chaps, or have I joined the wrong club.
 
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Couldn't agree with you more. Zbirdy
a 240z is a 240z no such thing as a series 1,2,35 or 36 just a 240
next they will be saying that there where 365 series of the 240 made in the first year one for each day
as for a kid coming up anfd asking about your car I think its one of the greatest buzzes you can get

series 1,2 a load of rubbish IMHO

Oh Bye the way this is the right Z club to belong to as i belong to it
:D
 
I couldn't disagree with you more zbirdy.

There is an old saying; "Right Church, Wrong Pew".

If your selection of a Discussion Thread is any indication of your judgment, it would be hard to tell if you joined the right club or not.

Why would you come into a Discussion Thread titled "Series I 240Z's (USA Imports), that had been carried on for 4 pages, over a five week period, and then complain that the subject of discussion is not to your liking?

If all this technical stuff does your simple head in... I'd suggest that start a Discussion Thread more to your liking, or review the other ongoing discussion threads to see if any of the non-technical subjects, will allow you to get your head out.

Better to light a candle than curse the darkness.


FWIW,
Carl

Carl Beck
Clearwater, FL USA
http://ZHome.com
 
I don't always agree with what Carl says "Hi Carl !" and we aren"t eye to eye on this thread either but I ditto what he says above.

I can see where you're coming from zbirdy and in that I applaud Steve for what he said BUT this discussion was opened and has been instructive which is what one should expect from a club membership eager to learn more about their cars !

Whether or not you want to call your S30 (for you Count) a series 1 or whatever, you cannot deny that during this discussion, we have learnt how one can tell production dates apart, important for several reasons, the first of which is insurance then road tax, parts ordering etc...

ON a personal note, I enjoy very much the discussion on the differences between different market cars and certainly the different opinions of each member who's contributed here.

zbirdy, your car is a LHD, presumably from the states, being restored at 4ways ? and has the rear wing indicator repeaters blacked out. You have chosen a different colour than origin, all this is great, it shows you're not an anorak and have your personal tatse. Don't waste your time slagging off those who enjoy the minutae - that info is offered for your pleasure too !

ps, if you joined the club, please would you note your membership number under your name as requested.
 
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