dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
How many of the first production 1970/71 Series 1 240Z's were privately imported into the UK - LHD & RHD ?
If you own one then drop me a PM. Cheers, Dave
If you own one then drop me a PM. Cheers, Dave
-
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Series 1 240Z's (USA Imports)
- Thread starter dave cottom
- Start date
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
What is a series one 240 ? And so how many series did Nissan make ?
dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
Sean, follow this link for further info. re. Series 1 cars:
http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm
Series 2 models to the USA commence from HLS30 021001. Don't know about RHD Series 1's. Home market Fairlady's plus Australia plus ?
Generally, Series 1's have rear hatch vents with no side vents in the quarter panels plus a host of other differences which I can list if anyone is interested.
Regards, Dave
http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm
Series 2 models to the USA commence from HLS30 021001. Don't know about RHD Series 1's. Home market Fairlady's plus Australia plus ?
Generally, Series 1's have rear hatch vents with no side vents in the quarter panels plus a host of other differences which I can list if anyone is interested.
Regards, Dave
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dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
Just noticed that USA Series 1's started as HLS-30 01****; Series 2's started HLS-30 02****; and Series 3 started HLS-30 04****. What happend to HLS-30 03**** ?
dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
OK calm down, I misread the number sequences. But from the site above the Series 2 started at HLS-30 021001 and the Series 3 started HLS-30 046000 ("according to Nissan") perhaps these were just coincidences ?
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Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
I'm perfectly calm dear 
Here's a great example of the holes evident in that zhome.com info:
"HLS30 020438 01 Last Series-I Body Style Reported (rear hatch vents with NO side vents in quarter panels).
HLS30 021001 First of Series II Body Style"
So there's a gap of 563 numbers? They must be 'Series 1.5' then?
Of course, the key word is 'reported'. This "Series 1,2,3" business mostly comes from the USA market. It seems to me that lots of small design changes ( Nissan were always at it ) slipped through the net, and that people like to pin "Series" numbers on cars where they notice particularly large design changes coinciding with eachother. There's a strong argument that no "Series" types for first generation S30-series Z cars actually firmly existed. As we can see, its certainly not possible to pin them down to particular chassis numbers ( at least not yet ).
Nissan's own "R-DRIVE" parts books list design changes and superseded parts, and occasionally quote chassis numbers that the changes pertain to. In many cases these seem somewhat arbitrary though. Hence the "according to Nissan" quote.
Fun ain't it?
Here's a great example of the holes evident in that zhome.com info:
"HLS30 020438 01 Last Series-I Body Style Reported (rear hatch vents with NO side vents in quarter panels).
HLS30 021001 First of Series II Body Style"
So there's a gap of 563 numbers? They must be 'Series 1.5' then?
Of course, the key word is 'reported'. This "Series 1,2,3" business mostly comes from the USA market. It seems to me that lots of small design changes ( Nissan were always at it ) slipped through the net, and that people like to pin "Series" numbers on cars where they notice particularly large design changes coinciding with eachother. There's a strong argument that no "Series" types for first generation S30-series Z cars actually firmly existed. As we can see, its certainly not possible to pin them down to particular chassis numbers ( at least not yet ).
Nissan's own "R-DRIVE" parts books list design changes and superseded parts, and occasionally quote chassis numbers that the changes pertain to. In many cases these seem somewhat arbitrary though. Hence the "according to Nissan" quote.
Fun ain't it?
dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
I'll tell you what is funny Albrecht. Staying awake until 02.45am on a Monday morning to esure that you win a couple of USA Z Ebay items. Not !!!!! Bloody Z bug.
See what you mean about the holes in the Zhome.com info. I'll stick to the superior Z Club of GB site in future.
Oh well, time foR bed.
Good morning, Dave
See what you mean about the holes in the Zhome.com info. I'll stick to the superior Z Club of GB site in future.
Oh well, time foR bed.
Good morning, Dave
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
I find that the hardest part is not just winning the item.
Its getting the Americans to accept a bid and send stuff out to you. Many a time I've had to explain the fact that London, England, United Kingdom is NOT an obscure place in the USA.
"Its a small island off the coast of France. Used to rule the World before you did" usually works.........
Its getting the Americans to accept a bid and send stuff out to you. Many a time I've had to explain the fact that London, England, United Kingdom is NOT an obscure place in the USA.
"Its a small island off the coast of France. Used to rule the World before you did" usually works.........
Tony 260Z
Club Member
Probably shooting myself in the foot here, but if you want to win ebay items, use an auction sniper. Try www.hammersnipe.com and follow the instructions.
But if anyone uses this info to beat me... grrrrrrrrr!
TL
But if anyone uses this info to beat me... grrrrrrrrr!
TL
I don't use a sniper myself ( not willing to hand control of my purchasing over to anyone else) but the good thing about sniping software is that you can set a limit in advance and get a good night's sleep, knowing that you won't be tempted to keep upping your bid price at the last moment just to see if you can win, without having to put your top price in hours before the auction ends
Andrew
) but the good thing about sniping software is that you can set a limit in advance and get a good night's sleep, knowing that you won't be tempted to keep upping your bid price at the last moment just to see if you can win, without having to put your top price in hours before the auction endsAndrew
Allan replied:
>I'm perfectly calm dear
>Here's a great example of the holes evident in that zhome.com info:
The "holes" are intentionally and clearly shown there - so that when our 13,500+
members around the world, are checking VIN's - they know what missing
numbers to look for and report - thus attempting to fill in the holes.
We accurately report what Nissan publishes - and we check/verify that information in the real world. Sometimes we find that the information published by Nissan was incorrect.
While some people of low intellect might feel the need to criticize or even complain that the information is not 100% complete... Most rational people recognize honest and factual reporting as well as the honest efforts of our Members to gather factual data.
>"HLS30 020438 01 Last Series-I Body Style Reported (rear hatch vents with NO >side vents in quarter panels).
>
>HLS30 021001 First of Series II Body Style"
>So there's a gap of 563 numbers? They must be 'Series 1.5' then?
Yes. There could be and most likely are gaps when one Series of production units end and a new Series is began.
It very well could be that HLS30 020438 is simply the last of the Series I cars produced. Nissan clearly reports "starting" new "Series" of ID numbers at specified intervals.
The largest GAP is between the end of the Series III cars and the beginning of the Series IV cars. Nissan started the Series IV cars at HLS30 120001 while the last Series III car we have found to date is HLS30 100155, a gap of about 20K units.
In addition to gaps.. we find that there are also "overlaps".. where older
Series units have chassis numbers that were supposed to be assigned to
newer Series units.
>Of course, the key word is 'reported'. This "Series 1,2,3" business mostly
>comes from the USA market.
I believe that Arabic numerals, and thus the counting numbers we use today originated in India a few thousand years ago. So "Series 1, 2, 3 mostly comes from India" - would be a more correct statement.
>It seems to me that lots of small design changes ( Nissan were always at it )
>slipped through the net, and that people like to pin "Series" numbers on cars
>where they notice particularly large design changes coinciding with eachother.
Actually it has nothing to do with what people like to do... has everything to do with the coding and classification systems used in the Automotive Industry.
In this case Nissan uses a specific "Series" of counting numbers, to identify, track and account for groups of similar production units. When they made major changes to the production units - they assigned a new SERIES of numbers to identify the now changed units, and in turn, each new SERIES of production numbers are themselves numbered in Series.
>There's a strong argument that no "Series" types for first generation
>S30-series Z cars actually firmly existed.
Allan honestly; you would be about the only person that I know of, that would attempt to make that "strong argument".
>As we can see, its certainly not possible to pin them down to particular
>chassis numbers ( at least not yet ).
... Nissan Pinned the beginning of the different Series down clearly (even if somewhat mistakenly). We are simply trying to track down the end of the various Series.
For Example:
= = = ==
From:
NISSAN SERVICE BULLETIN
FEBRUARY 1971 VOL. 137
(1971 Late Models)
From Page 3:
"Now with some eighteen new improvements, the DATSUN 240Z Sports is
regarded by the customers the finest and best GT coupe ever offered in its
class.
These improvements will provide you with added ammunition in selling
DATSUN 240Z Sports as the GT coupe giving the greatest performance and
safety as well as highest level of comfort - important considerations to all \
cost-conscious customers.
The 1971 late model will enter production from the following car number
(identification number).
HLS30........HLS30 21001
HS30......... HS30 00501"
= = = = = = = ==
Thus - Nissan pins down the "series" of numbers assigned to the start of the first major group of changes to the production unit. (as they did for all following Series).
>Nissan's own "R-DRIVE" parts books list design changes and superseded parts,
>and occasionally quote chassis numbers that the changes pertain to. In many
>cases these seem somewhat arbitrary though. Hence the "according to Nissan" >quote.
I believe that you have confused yourself again. Minor changes to individual parts or part numbers, do not equate to major changes in the standard automotive production unit.
Your confusion however serves as a good example of why owners of Datsun 240-Z's need to know not only the VIN and Build Date of their car - but also need to be aware of what Series it is.
Because Nissan overlapped the production of different Series during the same months -it is quite possible to order and receive the wrong parts for your Z, if you go strictly by the information in the Parts Catalogs.
FWIW,
Carl
Carl Beck
Clearwater,FL USA
http://ZHome.com
>I'm perfectly calm dear
>Here's a great example of the holes evident in that zhome.com info:
The "holes" are intentionally and clearly shown there - so that when our 13,500+
members around the world, are checking VIN's - they know what missing
numbers to look for and report - thus attempting to fill in the holes.
We accurately report what Nissan publishes - and we check/verify that information in the real world. Sometimes we find that the information published by Nissan was incorrect.
While some people of low intellect might feel the need to criticize or even complain that the information is not 100% complete... Most rational people recognize honest and factual reporting as well as the honest efforts of our Members to gather factual data.
>"HLS30 020438 01 Last Series-I Body Style Reported (rear hatch vents with NO >side vents in quarter panels).
>
>HLS30 021001 First of Series II Body Style"
>So there's a gap of 563 numbers? They must be 'Series 1.5' then?
Yes. There could be and most likely are gaps when one Series of production units end and a new Series is began.
It very well could be that HLS30 020438 is simply the last of the Series I cars produced. Nissan clearly reports "starting" new "Series" of ID numbers at specified intervals.
The largest GAP is between the end of the Series III cars and the beginning of the Series IV cars. Nissan started the Series IV cars at HLS30 120001 while the last Series III car we have found to date is HLS30 100155, a gap of about 20K units.
In addition to gaps.. we find that there are also "overlaps".. where older
Series units have chassis numbers that were supposed to be assigned to
newer Series units.
>Of course, the key word is 'reported'. This "Series 1,2,3" business mostly
>comes from the USA market.
I believe that Arabic numerals, and thus the counting numbers we use today originated in India a few thousand years ago. So "Series 1, 2, 3 mostly comes from India" - would be a more correct statement.
>It seems to me that lots of small design changes ( Nissan were always at it )
>slipped through the net, and that people like to pin "Series" numbers on cars
>where they notice particularly large design changes coinciding with eachother.
Actually it has nothing to do with what people like to do... has everything to do with the coding and classification systems used in the Automotive Industry.
In this case Nissan uses a specific "Series" of counting numbers, to identify, track and account for groups of similar production units. When they made major changes to the production units - they assigned a new SERIES of numbers to identify the now changed units, and in turn, each new SERIES of production numbers are themselves numbered in Series.
>There's a strong argument that no "Series" types for first generation
>S30-series Z cars actually firmly existed.
Allan honestly; you would be about the only person that I know of, that would attempt to make that "strong argument".
>As we can see, its certainly not possible to pin them down to particular
>chassis numbers ( at least not yet ).
... Nissan Pinned the beginning of the different Series down clearly (even if somewhat mistakenly). We are simply trying to track down the end of the various Series.
For Example:
= = = ==
From:
NISSAN SERVICE BULLETIN
FEBRUARY 1971 VOL. 137
(1971 Late Models)
From Page 3:
"Now with some eighteen new improvements, the DATSUN 240Z Sports is
regarded by the customers the finest and best GT coupe ever offered in its
class.
These improvements will provide you with added ammunition in selling
DATSUN 240Z Sports as the GT coupe giving the greatest performance and
safety as well as highest level of comfort - important considerations to all \
cost-conscious customers.
The 1971 late model will enter production from the following car number
(identification number).
HLS30........HLS30 21001
HS30......... HS30 00501"
= = = = = = = ==
Thus - Nissan pins down the "series" of numbers assigned to the start of the first major group of changes to the production unit. (as they did for all following Series).
>Nissan's own "R-DRIVE" parts books list design changes and superseded parts,
>and occasionally quote chassis numbers that the changes pertain to. In many
>cases these seem somewhat arbitrary though. Hence the "according to Nissan" >quote.
I believe that you have confused yourself again. Minor changes to individual parts or part numbers, do not equate to major changes in the standard automotive production unit.
Your confusion however serves as a good example of why owners of Datsun 240-Z's need to know not only the VIN and Build Date of their car - but also need to be aware of what Series it is.
Because Nissan overlapped the production of different Series during the same months -it is quite possible to order and receive the wrong parts for your Z, if you go strictly by the information in the Parts Catalogs.
FWIW,
Carl
Carl Beck
Clearwater,FL USA
http://ZHome.com
dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
Wish I would have kept my big mouth shut now - sorry guys.
Can't we all just be good friends ? If Tony and George can do it, so can we.
God bless the USA/UK alliance !
Dave
PS. Who can we invade next ? I here that South Africa's loaded with gold and diamonds. Mmmmm.
Can't we all just be good friends ? If Tony and George can do it, so can we.
God bless the USA/UK alliance !
Dave
PS. Who can we invade next ? I here that South Africa's loaded with gold and diamonds. Mmmmm.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
I still don't see why anyone wants to talk about series 1 or series 1.5 or upwards - these are not Jaguar E-Types we own !
You have a 240Z, I have one, he has one and the only thing in common is that they are HS30 s ! Please don't try harder to catagorize them, it's an emotional thing to own a Z not something to put on a librarians C.V. !
You have a 240Z, I have one, he has one and the only thing in common is that they are HS30 s ! Please don't try harder to catagorize them, it's an emotional thing to own a Z not something to put on a librarians C.V. !
dave cottom
Well-Known Forum User
Actually Sean I own a HLS-30. We all have the S30 in common, but I agree with everything you say.
Dave
PS. The French & Germans made the right decision.
Dave
PS. The French & Germans made the right decision.
It is a bit of an Americanism, but I can assure you across the pond having a 'series 1' car is very important to many 240z owners, as it is the first model of the 240z that was imported into the US, which had quite a few detail differences to the later ones.
Over here we had so few 240z's imported that any detail differences that could be ascribed to different 'series' were fairly minor anyway.
Andrew
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Who is this "Allan" guy? He of the "low intellect"?
I do believe I really get under your skin sometimes ( thick though it is ). Sorry about that
Quote: "Yes. There could be and most likely are gaps when one Series of production units end and a new Series is began."
That'll be 'begun' Karl ( don't want you to appear to be a 'person of low intellect' do we? ).
So WHAT ARE the cars in between then?!! Are you saying that the VIN numbers concerned do not actually exist? Or - if they do exist - they are 'in-betweenies"?
Quote: "I believe that Arabic numerals, and thus the counting numbers we use today originated in India a few thousand years ago. So "Series 1, 2, 3 mostly comes from India" - would be a more correct statement."
What a tw*t. You know what I am saying. The "Series 1, 2, 3 etc" as it relates to the S30-series Z car ( and not counting and numbers IN GENERAL ) is mostly seen and read in the USA. Do we see it in the other markets for the S30-series Z? Answer: Not in the same way as it is discussed in the USA. Therefore - I rest my case - this is mostly an American perspective, described most commonly in period, and contemporarily, in the USA.
How many of the Nissan 'Service Shuho' books do you possess Karl? If you have any, or have even seen any, you will know that MANY design / detail changes were made all through production, and NOT necessarily according to the convenient "Series" numbers you inherited from NMC USA's practice of convenience. You already acknowledge yourself that their numbers are not accurate, or do not make complete sense, so why ridicule somebody who is pointing out the same thing?
As usual, your viewpoint simply reflects what you grew up with, and were fed by NMC USA. Kind of like growing up on one side of a desert island without having seen the view from the other side. You don't want to go over there now, as the view might frighten you too much.
Sorry, but this "Series 1,2,3 etc etc" stuff is purely abstract and subjective.