Rally 240Z with FIA papers on eBay

[Albrecht]

Alan have you spoken to Mr Arther Clarter about it ?

Indirectly, yes. The message I got in return was that I "didn't know what I was talking about".

That's a matter of opinion, but I'd say that the pictures I posted know what they are talking about.

This has been dragging on for years now..........

 

[Albrecht]

So if this isnt chassis 26 then what did happen to chassis 26?

Jonathan Bradburn scrapped it. It was shagged out after doing all those bloody rallies.

 

[Albrecht]

you better ask what happend to all of them????

There's still a few knocking around though, eh Guus?

 

[Albrecht]

these are cheaper....
original FIA???

Exactly!

 

[Legendary5]

They need a leaflet to point out this is the real one

 

[Legendary5]

There's still a few knocking around though, eh Guus?

Absolutely correct I’ve got one too!!!

 

[Mr.G]

Guus is yours a replica of the original chassis 26? So in fact the car on ebay with reg PTD 524K originally had a completely different reg, the car with the original reg PTD 524K was the original works car that was destroyed after too many rallies by Bradburn?

Have i got this right?

 

[Albrecht]

Guus is yours a replica of the original chassis 26?

Guus' car is a replica of a completely different car.....

So in fact the car on ebay with reg PTD 524K originally had a completely different reg, the car with the original reg PTD 524K was the original works car that was destroyed after too many rallies by Bradburn?

This is complicated George.

'TKS 33 SA 696' was the Japanese temporary-export 'carnet' registration number given to chassis no. HS30-00026 when it was first registered by Nissan in Japan.

When the Japanese temporary-export registration number ran out, it became liable for UK import taxes. These were paid, and it was registered on a UK number - but was rallied in several events wearing the personal number plates 'CAL 1' and 'KEJ 1', which were transferred onto more than one ex-Works 240Z rally car. It was issued with 'PTD 524K' by the DVLA.

The UK registration number of the Japanese-market 'S30' bodyshell that is being sold in this eBay auction was available for all to see amongst the documentation with the car at the Bonhams auction. This 'donor' car came into the UK in the Seventies as a personal import from Japan by a Serviceman.

The paperwork is correct, but the bodyshell of the car is not.

 

[grolls]

There are lots of genuine ( and rare ) ex-Works parts on the car - but there is also a lot missing, and a lot that is incorrect. Look at the carburettors for instance; they are a set of Weber DCOEs from 'LAL' ( which was sold at the Bonhams Goodwood Festival of Speed sale, where this car did not sell ) and 'LAL' was sold with the correct 44PHH Mikunis that should would have been correct for this car. Everything was / is jumbled up........

Any idea what the genuine ex-works parts are and is worth a look?

 

[Legendary5]

Guus' car is a replica of a completely different car.....

George,

Does the name "legendary5" ring a bell???

 

[SeanDezart]

So the seller is a lying basket and has been ripped off in the past and is willing to continue this affair to sell on !

Guus, your car would be a better replica if it was RHD, no ?

 

[Legendary5]

Guus, your car would be a better replica if it was RHD, no ?

I back you pardon…… how on earth do you come to this idea???

Here’s a brain wave for you, the most spread picture in the world that I could found...

 

[SeanDezart]

Well, anyone can stick a no 5 on the side of an ordinary car and also change the chassis numbers too

Sorry Guus - why did I think that all works cars from Japan were RHD ?

So, were all special works chassis LHD ? Why ?

 

[Hugh Myers]

Question - was the car ever rallied after the bodyshell change?

What state is it in (in rally terms)?

Maybe, with some modern safety equipment fitted as necessary, it would make a nice rally car! £20 - 30k would not be hugely expensive for a decent rally car and if it is not really a works car then it would not be a disaster if anything happened to it on an event (as things sometimes do!)!!

Lets stop treating it like an ornament!

Hugh

 

[Albrecht]

Sorry Guus - why did I think that all works cars from Japan were RHD ?

So, were all special works chassis LHD ? Why ?

Sean,
I sometimes wonder whether you are living in a different universe to me.....

You've only just realised that not all Works 240Z / 260Z rally cars were RHD, but you've already made the assumption that they were all LHD.



There were both RHD and LHD versions built. If you want to know why I suggest that you might like to give some thought to where they were built to be driven, and who drove most of them.......

Got it yet?........

 

[Albrecht]

Question - was the car ever rallied after the bodyshell change?

Why don't you ask the vendor. I'm sure he'll give you a completely honest and truthful answer

What state is it in (in rally terms)?

Its in a state. It has been dormant for more than a decade at least, and ( in my opinion ) needs a complete and thorough re-commissioning before being considered at MOT-able, let alone race-able.

Maybe, with some modern safety equipment fitted as necessary, it would make a nice rally car! £20 - 30k would not be hugely expensive for a decent rally car and if it is not really a works car then it would not be a disaster if anything happened to it on an event (as things sometimes do!)!!

Lets stop treating it like an ornament!

Hugh

How much are you willing to bid then Hugh? You are talking about £20k - £30k as though that kind of figure has some relevance to this car...........

Actually, in my opinion this car offers little relevant starting-point material for a current and competitive historic class rally car.

Most of the components are out of date and will not comply with modern safety regulations ( seats, belts, cage, wheels for starters ) and some would require replacement as a matter of course ( suspension, brakes, diff, engine ( ? ), some panels ). In short, if you want to get there, why start from here? You'd be taking off most of the parts that you had paid for..........

But you are also forgetting the BIG question here. Would an 'S30' VIN-numbered body be eligible to run with anything other than a 2-litre engine in the championships and races that a serious historic rally driver might want to enter?

Did you think about that?

It might well be just an "ornament" after all.........

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Basically as always 'buyer beware'. At least if they are a member of this club they will not be ignorant of the facts.

My 240 with original engine and it's FIA approved rollcage, harnesses and seats must be worth a few bob!

 

[Arkwright]

Looks like the seller has now played his Get Out Of **** Card (see new comments on sale page).

 

[Albrecht]

Looks like the seller has now played his Get Out Of **** Card (see new comments on sale page).

I think the new comments are showing once again how little the vendor understands. In fact, the vendor is simply quoting some of the things that were written in the Bonhams sale catalogue - so nothing new there - but still can't get the story straight. Some observations:

I have contacted the owner and have hopefully got tho the bottom of this. The car had been rolled by Roy Fidler and was re-shelled by Bradburns the chassis plate from 26 was then transferred (this plate bearing original Japanese characters, had been overstamped prior to Bradburns ownership) Fia scutineers would not have been able to read this.

The vendor is saying that "the chassis plate from 26 was then transferred" - but the plate on the car now ( as can be seen from the photo I posted earlier ) is categorically NOT the original VIN plate from HS30-00026! It is the original plate from the Fairlady Z shell that the car now uses, and was OVERSTAMPED with the number of HS30-00026.

What's this nonsense about FIA scrutineers "......would not have been able to read" the Japanese characters on the original VIN plate? Note:

FACT: The original VIN plate of 'HS30-00026' was an 'Export' type VIN plate, written in English.

FACT: The original VIN plate of 'S30-02552' ( the Fairlady Z body that is being sold in the auction ) was a 'Domestic' type VIN plate, written in Japanese. THIS IS THE PLATE THAT IS STILL ON THE CAR - and has simply been overstamped........

The vendor is again telling a story that doesn't add up, and you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see what has been done here. The facts speak for themselves.

Bradburns re-jigged the car and fitted various new body chassis part to complete the rebuild. ALL of the parts from the original shell (which was scrapped) were transferred to this shell and the car then competed in further events in the hands of J Bradburn.

The car being sold is actually fitted with a mixture of standard road car parts and ex-Works rally car parts, but many of the ex-Works rally car parts are of later vintage than the original 1970 RAC Rally spec.
Many of the parts from the 1970 Fairlady Z 'donor' car were retained, such as the standard steel tailgate, all glass windows, standard dashboard, standard pedals and pedal box, for example.

If the vendor had started out with a totally upfront and honest description of this car, many of these things would not be a 'problem'. It is a very interesting car, with some wonderfully rare and interesting parts attached to it, but it is still categorically NOT HS30-00026.............

 

[Albrecht]

Some people have been asking me what happened to the original 'HS30-00026' bodyshell that would make it fit for the scrap heap.

Part of the answer is that this car had such a hard life in period, and competed in so many rallies, that the bodyshell was probably falling apart in all the usual places.

And then, this happened: