Mega squirt/Emerald L28

[jonbills]

Lots of people do it, but you have to be "practical" and interested to learn. If not, best to leave to someone else.
Paying someone would be reasonably expensive - 4-5k? To source and install sensors, ECU, turbo plumbing vs 1/2 that to do it yourself.
Still much less than you'd pay to lose the turbo and get the same power Normally Aspirated.

 

[Sky]

Lots of people do it, but you have to be "practical" and interested to learn. If not, best to leave to someone else.
Paying someone would be reasonably expensive - 4-5k? To source and install sensors, ECU, turbo plumbing vs 1/2 that to do it yourself.
Still much less than you'd pay to lose the turbo and get the same power Normally Aspirated.

I'm definitely looking to do it myself, the reason I bought the car is to learn how to work on it, I’m not afraid to get my hands dirty.
I just want to make sure I’m doing the right thing and not wasting money getting wrong parts or buying extras that I don’t need.

Parts I find hard are understanding what injectors will work best, are all sensors pretty much the same or are some company’s much better than others?

 

[jonbills]

"doing the right thing" depends on you, custom turbo and self installed efi might put some people off if and when you sell (compared to std SUs or triple carbs) , but I do think its the easy way to keep the power and make it much safer.
For injectors, there are a few variables: resistance - "high Z" or "low Z". You need to know what your ECU likes. Most modern ones like high (12-16 ohm I think)
Then there's flow rate. The higher the flow rate the more power it can support. But the higher the flow rate the shorter the injection time is, and too big injectors can result in unstable idle. I'd guess you'd need something like 300cc/min (if you're using 6 injectors)
Next, the physical packaging, which is to say, do they fit snugly in the hole you're going to put them in. There's not too many varieties, and I'd think a little googling of injectors for your head/plenum will lead to what sort of package you need.
Last is the electrical connector type, but you can buy whatever you need.

In terms of other sensors, I'd check what's popular with the ECU you're going to use and buy some from ebay. They'll be cheap chinese copies undoubtedly, but 90% they'll work fine and they'll be cheap.
If you were to get a Speeduino I could advise more specifically.

 

[moggy240]

What's your location?

 

[Mark N]

A good rule of thumb for injectors on a 6 cylinder turbo is to match them to you power goal/turbo.
For example: 500bhp = 500cc or larger

 

[Fairlineguy]

I initially ran that same stock intake manifold albeit non turbo it’s very restrictive on power versus ITBs
but if your wanting to retain the turbo prob the best way to go.
Once you decide on the make of Ecu you’ll probably find they will pre configure it for you with a start up map and set for the sensors you need to use.Emerald will do this for you leaving just a few setting left to do prior to first start up.

 

[Sky]

What's your location?

I’m based down in Surrey

 

[Sky]

"doing the right thing" depends on you, custom turbo and self installed efi might put some people off if and when you sell (compared to std SUs or triple carbs) , but I do think its the easy way to keep the power and make it much safer.
For injectors, there are a few variables: resistance - "high Z" or "low Z". You need to know what your ECU likes. Most modern ones like high (12-16 ohm I think)
Then there's flow rate. The higher the flow rate the more power it can support. But the higher the flow rate the shorter the injection time is, and too big injectors can result in unstable idle. I'd guess you'd need something like 300cc/min (if you're using 6 injectors)
Next, the physical packaging, which is to say, do they fit snugly in the hole you're going to put them in. There's not too many varieties, and I'd think a little googling of injectors for your head/plenum will lead to what sort of package you need.
Last is the electrical connector type, but you can buy whatever you need.

In terms of other sensors, I'd check what's popular with the ECU you're going to use and buy some from ebay. They'll be cheap chinese copies undoubtedly, but 90% they'll work fine and they'll be cheap.
If you were to get a Speeduino I could advise more specifically.

Ok so it’s definitely something that I can do.

Thank you for the rest of the information, it’s all slowly starting to piece together (slowly being the key word )

In your personal view, am I better of dropping the turbo & going with ITB’s?

When I got the car I was told it made around 350hp, since then I have had to tune it down as it wouldn’t ideal & was running super rich. Ideally I’d get it back up to that range 300-350hp, does this sound achievable with ITB’s or is it really only with the turbo?

 

[Sky]

I initially ran that same stock intake manifold albeit non turbo it’s very restrictive on power versus ITBs
but if your wanting to retain the turbo prob the best way to go.
Once you decide on the make of Ecu you’ll probably find they will pre configure it for you with a start up map and set for the sensors you need to use.Emerald will do this for you leaving just a few setting left to do prior to first start up.

I wasn’t sure if the ECU company would just ship it over or weather they would give me some pointers as to what senses they recommend etc.

Interesting to hear you’ve used the same intake manifold, would you recommend it?. It came with the car when I bought it so I haven’t looked into it too much yet. Would it be sensible to go with a different one?

 

[Coyd]

Anyone running a l28 a stand alone fuel/ign ecu I’m looking at the mega squirt ms2 set up .
but was wondering if anyone is currently running this or some thing similar like emerald ?

I’m running a classic fuel injection system, they use a Maax ecu.
I’ve used my Su’s as throttle bodies.
£1700 whole kit, everything you need.

 

[jonbills]

Ok so it’s definitely something that I can do.

Thank you for the rest of the information, it’s all slowly starting to piece together (slowly being the key word )

In your personal view, am I better of dropping the turbo & going with ITB’s?

When I got the car I was told it made around 350hp, since then I have had to tune it down as it wouldn’t ideal & was running super rich. Ideally I’d get it back up to that range 300-350hp, does this sound achievable with ITB’s or is it really only with the turbo?

Yeah, you can get 350 with ITBs and no turbo, will cost about £15k+ of parts and engine building.

 

[toopy]

I’m running a classic fuel injection system, they use a Maax ecu.
I’ve used my Su’s as throttle bodies.
£1700 whole kit, everything you need.

Sounds interesting, just had a quick look at their website.

Any chance of some more detailed information/pictures of your install? Maybe a separate thread write up of your experience with it etc?

 

[Fairlineguy]

Ok so it’s definitely something that I can do.

Thank you for the rest of the information, it’s all slowly starting to piece together (slowly being the key word )

In your personal view, am I better of dropping the turbo & going with ITB’s?

When I got the car I was told it made around 350hp, since then I have had to tune it down as it wouldn’t ideal & was running super rich. Ideally I’d get it back up to that range 300-350hp, does this sound achievable with ITB’s or is it really only with the turbo?

Before you decide to de turbo it and go itbs
I’d be thinking about compression ratio as I’d imagine your engine will be fairly low compression
if wanting good power normally aspirated you need to start plan what works to get the desired HP
I’m making 263 hp from a 2.8 I’ve seen 3.1 stroker with same ign /fuel system make 283hp on the same rolling road .

 

[Sky]

Yeah, you can get 350 with ITBs and no turbo, will cost about £15k+ of parts and engine building.

Well that answers that questions, I definitely don’t have the budget for a 15k engine build

 

[Sky]

Before you decide to de turbo it and go itbs
I’d be thinking about compression ratio as I’d imagine your engine will be fairly low compression
if wanting good power normally aspirated you need to start plan what works to get the desired HP
I’m making 263 hp from a 2.8 I’ve seen 3.1 stroker with same ign /fuel system make 283hp on the same rolling road .

Can you explain why changing from a single carb+turbo to a fuel injected manifold & turbo will increase the compression if I keep the turbo the same size?
I trust your right, I’m not trying to argue, I just want to understand/learn why it makes a difference

 

[jonbills]

Can you explain why changing from a single carb+turbo to a fuel injected manifold & turbo will increase the compression if I keep the turbo the same size?
I trust your right, I’m not trying to argue, I just want to understand/learn why it makes a difference

I think Neil is saying that your low compression turbo engine isn't a good starting point for a high compression NA engine.

 

[Fairlineguy]

I think Neil is saying that your low compression turbo engine isn't a good starting point for a high compression NA engine.

 

[Sky]

I think Neil is saying that your low compression turbo engine isn't a good starting point for a high compression NA engine.

Ahhhh ok, so if I were to go down the route of ITB’s or Carbs which are NA right? I would have to do a lot of engine rebuilding work to get to my desired power range. But to retain what I’ve got but switch to FI I would only have to change the ‘external’ parts that we’ve mentioned?

 

[Robotsan]

Ahhhh ok, so if I were to go down the route of ITB’s or Carbs which are NA right? I would have to do a lot of engine rebuilding work to get to my desired power range. But to retain what I’ve got but switch to FI I would only have to change the ‘external’ parts that we’ve mentioned?

Yes, ITBs and Carbs are NA if there's no forced induction involved (turbo or supercharger).

Basically forced induction is a relatively quick and cheap option for a lot of power, with a low compression (e.g. stock) engine.

But getting to the same power levels without forced induction means lots of expensive work on the internals.

 

[Coyd]

Sounds interesting, just had a quick look at their website.

Any chance of some more detailed information/pictures of your install? Maybe a separate thread write up of your experience with it etc?

I’ve used the adapter plate between carb and manifold as an injector mounting.
The carbs have the pistons removed, so they act as throttle bodies.
The ecu is small, everyone I’ve spoken to rates it highly. It’s fully programmable, the back up is very good, they always respond.
For the money as a complete set up, I don’t think you can beat it on price.
Obviously a jenvey system would be the ultimate but cost and streetable use I don’t think there’s much benefit.
Engine starts on the button even after sitting for a few months, very responsive.