Another high end car auction

Steve - are you simply trying to provoke discussion here or do you really believe that ?

Clubbies always put down the values of cars but the reality is that there are people out there prepared to pay 'top-dollar' for well-finished cars whether stock, modified or rare versions.

'no matter what its history' ? JD bought some bargains - let's have another chat in 5-10 yrs time because bear in mind that those 'newbie' buyers to which the Count refers can afford to 'place' money on S30s for several years.
 
Sorry - came in a few posts 'too late' but I'll add that a works car was sold earlier this year (to the USA) incomplete and in dire need of a restoration at a sum that would hush you up. I can't disclose that amount by respect of the seller and buyer but the Count knows and can verify.

Good Zs are up in value, special ones very much more so. Some of the action is speculative (oh yes, over 'jap-****' made from recylcled baked-bean tins), some of by fortunate poeple wanting to own one because they know (or have been told) how important they are.

The point is that people believe that 'our hobby' cars are worth it - perception is everything.
 
PZ 69 said:
A genuine works car will be worth around the same as a Nissan 240ZG imo.
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Current market value (obviously in Japan, where the vast majority of them are) of a good, genuine HS30-H model Fairlady 240ZG in top condition is somewhere between 40k and 60k GBP at current exchange rates.

A genuine Works 240Z rally car with all the bells and whistles - let's say a 1971 car for sake of argument - and in good to great condition will be in the region of 180k to 200k or even more. Easily. And I'd expect it to go back to Japan, too.

Find one though.
 
Pete said:
I's a lovely colour, is it an official Nissan colour, what's the code?
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I believe it's #115 Grand Prix Blue (metallic). Very rare choice on the PS30, and only available 1972/3 on that model as far as I remember OTOH.
 
Albrecht said:
It would probably be quite educational to compare just how many parts on a PS30 are different to the parts on your car. More to the point, it would probably be quite interesting to see if I could help you understand how much of your car is how it is simply because other variants were conceived, designed, styled, engineered and produced alongside it. Maybe it would help you to understand your own car a little more deeply?

Where's your line of thinking going though? A paste 'diamond' looks just like a real diamond, and performs its primary function (looking good) just as well. A G-Shock tells time more accurately than a Patek Philippe. 1952 Fender Telecaster vs 2012 Squier Telecaster?

If any of this needs explaining then it's probably going to fall on deaf ears. I'm nonplussed by the fact that the house I live in - a pile of bricks and timber that was chucked up over 100 years ago and has been doing its best to fall down ever since - is now worth more than I have earned - or will earn - in my lifetime. Most of that is apparently due not to what it is, but to where it is.

Supply and demand accounts for a lot of it, but the demand for the PS30 is founded on something a little more akin to magic than a forensic study of its componentry and sheetmetal...
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Good points, well made. I do understand that the rarity and/or history of something increases its value - and being a guitarist I appreciate the Fender/Squier comparison. I don't know enough about these cars to really appreciate the difference.
I own my car because I love the shape of it, the way it sits on the road and the interior. My point is that in those respects there is little to choose between my car and the auction one.
The difference is the history, the rarity and the much more powerful engine which I don't PERSONALLY feel is worth an extra 110,000 dollars!
In much the same way that if Paul McCartney had once owned my car I probably would not have been able to afford to buy it.
I don't see my car as a 'paste' version of the 'diamond' model that is up for auction.
I can buy a perfectly good business shirt from M&S for £20 or get a designer label one for £300. They will look virtually identical - but even if I had the money I would not spend the £300 because that, to me, is just letting someone relieve me of my money for something that isn't worth the difference in price.
But others will alway feel differently and that's fair enough.
 
PZ 69 said:
I don't know what car you have, but i am sure it has not got a S20 engine in it, which makes these Z432 stand out from the norm. These Nissan Z432 are the holy grail even more so for the Z432 R, which is so much different.
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I have a very original 1978 260z in excellent condition. Visit my gallery to see pictures.
 
RIDDLER said:
It may not be, but from the outside and the inside it look nigh identical.
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Sorry, you're missing the specific point I was trying to make. When this car left the (Nissan) factory, you would not have seen the word 'Datsun' written on it anywhere. Not on the car, not on the paperwork that went with it, not on the registration papers that legalised it for road use in Japan, and not even on the advertising that promoted the car.

It's a Nissan.

On the "it looks nigh identical" point, it's rather more than skin deep. There are actually hundreds - if not thousands - of differences between this car and yours, but the key factor is that it carries a different chassis variant code. You could say the same thing about a KGC10 and a KPGC10. You could sit in one and point out that it looks "nigh on identical" to the other (you'd have missed a few details) but that's not what makes the difference...

I must say I'm rather surprised by the general resistance to the idea that this car - and others like it - is "not worth it", and mainly because it "looks like" other - cheaper, more numerous - models. Try doing the same with the likes of a Lotus Cortina, an Escort Twin Cam or - to a greater extreme - with a Porsche 911T/R or 356 Carrera GT for further examples of why it doesn't work like that...
 
It's good to see that some people value these cars properly. Even if they're none members who frequent auctions. Maybe they'll join the club to learn more about them and valuations..
 
franky said:
Maybe they'll join the club to learn more about them and valuations..
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With respect, I hardly think people join the club to learn more about them.....after all, the feeling here is it's a Datsun like any other save a more powerful engine and not worth the estimates......:rolleyes:
 
SeanDezart said:
With respect, I hardly think people join the club to learn more about them.....after all, the feeling here is it's a Datsun like any other save a more powerful engine and not worth the estimates......:rolleyes:
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I THINK he was being sarcastic?

Anyway it's a lovely car - thanks for the link JK.
 
Albrecht said:
It's the early production and - importantly - stock, or near stock - PS30s and PS30-SBs that are the most sought after at the moment, and which are therefore commanding the highest prices.

It's still chump change to a lot of the nouveau 'collectors' out there...
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One might assume that there will be a roll-on effect which may....or may not be limited to the limited production versions - it all depends upon the public's perception and a desire created that may suffice at a stock Z or may develop to simulate those versions - just look at the prolification of 'ZG' arches on Zs around the world now !
 
STEVE BURNS said:
No where near as much as others think
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Albrecht said:
How about the insurance company? How about the club's valuations officer? Slippery slope...
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I'm still interested to hear anything in reply to the above.

If senior members of a marque/model dedicated club in the UK are of the opinion that certain cars are "not worth" the figures they have been changing hands for, then where does that leave said club in relation to club valuations and the question of 'Agreed Value' insurance?
 
Albrecht said:
I'm still interested to hear anything in reply to the above
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Perhaps the 'island-mentality' - what happens 'over there' is not our concern - there is a similar attitude to LHD Zs which for sale within the UK are seen only as potentiel conversions to RHD and future Samuris.:rolleyes:
 
SeanDezart said:
One might assume that there will be a roll-on effect which may....or may not be limited to the limited production versions - it all depends upon the public's perception and a desire created that may suffice at a stock Z or may develop to simulate those versions - just look at the prolification of 'ZG' arches on Zs around the world now !
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Some kind of reformation or renaissance in favour of 'period correct' modifications, sympathetic to the origins of the cars and with less emphasis on 'powah' would be welcome at this point. It's interesting to note that one of the side effects of the increasing values of the rarer models (particularly 240ZGs, 432s, 432-Rs) is the trend to restore them to stock or near-stock specs and appearance.

I'd like to see more of these cars in the UK looking like they are actually Japanese cars from the late 1960s/early 1970s period. When it comes down to it though, I guess it's just a matter of good taste. Either you have it, or you don't...
 
Albrecht said:
I'm still interested to hear anything in reply to the above.

If senior members of a marque/model dedicated club in the UK are of the opinion that certain cars are "not worth" the figures they have been changing hands for, then where does that leave said club in relation to club valuations and the question of 'Agreed Value' insurance?
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Steve's comment was about a specific 'works' rally car not a general S30 that members of this Club would own and approach our valuations officer about. That car would need very specific insurance IMO based on the investment in it and the fact that it could not be replaced. Surely an insurance company 'covering' that car would be one specialising in 'high risk' items and would rely on the owners very detailed description and maybe input from Nissan, yourself and their own specialists?

The 432 being 'on the market' would be easier to insure because you would have the selling price as a base for negotiation.

SeanDezart said:
Perhaps the 'island-mentality' - what happens 'over there' is not our concern - there is a similar attitude to LHD Zs which for sale within the UK are seen only as potentiel conversions to RHD and future Samuris.:rolleyes:
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Sean you have mentioned this 'island-mentality' a few times - I quite like our island tbh. Are you jealous? ;)
 
Albrecht said:
I'm still interested to hear anything in reply to the above.

If senior members of a marque/model dedicated club in the UK are of the opinion that certain cars are "not worth" the figures they have been changing hands for, then where does that leave said club in relation to club valuations and the question of 'Agreed Value' insurance?
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So now you go on the attack on something else
What is wrong with you


I think it is time for me to seriously think if I want to be involved with this place any more

A lot of people on here are reluctant to post on here as when they do they seem to be virtually abused by the nature of the wording if they dare to post up their opinions

Over the years I have loved being involved on here trying to ensure that owners had fun being here but at the moment it seems a few of the club members have reverted to the attitude of classic car owners in the past that the club fought against for so many years in the early days one being the utter lack of respect for any one who did not agree with their outlook that their views where the only views allowed
 
Rob Gaskin said:
Steve's comment was about a specific 'works' rally car not a general S30 that members of this Club would own and approach our valuations officer about. That car would need very specific insurance IMO based on the investment in it and the fact that it could not be replaced. Surely an insurance company 'covering' that car would be one specialising in 'high risk' items and would rely on the owners very detailed description and maybe input from Nissan, yourself and their own specialists?

The 432 being 'on the market' would be easier to insure because you would have the selling price as a base for negotiation.
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This was the post I was referring to:

STEVE BURNS said:
Every body is entitled to their opinion and IMHO no zed no matter what its history is worth that sort of money and any one who pays that is again in my opinion is doing so just to be like the "loads of money"caricature
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...so not just the (theoretical) works car I suggested as an extreme example.
 
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