Skiddy v. Sean the Gob - dragging

[SeanDezart]

Thanks (can someone change the poll name to Jon Mason please ?).

Dean's time looks like the one to have a go at - his being the fastest L6 !

What is the fastest a 260Z 2+2 has done it in then ?

 

[SKiddell]

Johhny like me went through a significant learning curve, we have spent a long time and hundreds of launches looking and learning how to drive the 1/4 and adopted all of the "good" mods and practices (things that were proven to work) such as the ATB, the right tyres and pressures, cold air induction, weight reduction, the right launch technique....plus we are prepared to sit on the start line at 4K in front of a grandstand of people, sidestep the clutch then crash each gear for 1320 feet....because thats whats needed and yes things get broken along the way, drive shafts, clutches, diffs, tyres and anything else that is moving around.

I didnt mind one bit when John took the title as it was well deserved and well fought for, in fact it clarified that its not just about grunt, its about the entire package as without other developments it just wont happen.
On that day Johhny was more than capable of producing a 12 second run with the right setup and took his engine config to the max (N42 + overbore + goodies) unfortunately as was proved by both of us, 250+hp out of these configs as about the safe limit without going to high spec internals and welded up heads, heads such as the N42 head are an "open" design and are det prone at high compressions (closed chambers like the P90, E31, and N47 have a compact design or "kidney shape" increasing squish/quench and burn quicker).

Sean there are cars on this forum that are more than capable of good times (13 seconds and better) Charlie boys car for example is a 12 second car without doubt...
Bens car ran a 12 second at Bruntingthorpe several years ago (12.7 if memory serves me Rob) which was featured in our magazine.....the Stapely special, if run in anger at the Pod is more than capable of running a 12.5....the people who built the engine, Pride are switched on cookies and know their onions plus the car is setup well and has bags of grip with those slicks.

And lets put that into perspective 12 second quarter miles are in the Ferrar/Porche and Lambo league, yes there are F*rd escorts and other cars out there that can run 12's like the CPL civics but they can't go around corners for sh1t, we have cars that handle as well as almost anything out there

Anyway, retro show is in 3 months and last time I went in the NA 3 litre and below class I got kicked into touch by a Harris F**d, running high 12's ......its not happening this time around, Mr payback is coming to town.

 

[SeanDezart]

Jon's on a 2.8 like you ?

And what is the weight of your car ? You share and I'll share - then you can give me another little dig.

 

[zedhead260]

Dean's time looks like the one to have a go at - his being the fastest L6 !

That one has been up for grabs by the turbo boys for 8 years.
Still no Simon and the best Nick Masters-Bond could do was a 14.5 never to return and now the car is for sale (a good terminal though, so capable of more)

I think Dean will be pissed if that 12.6 gets beat by an NA L6.

What is the fastest a 260Z 2+2 has done it in then ?

No 2+2's recorded sub 15 without the aid of 2 extra cylinders.

 

[SKiddell]

Jon's on a 2.8 like you ?

And what is the weight of your car ? You share and I'll share - then you can give me another little dig.

I was on a 2.8 (Jon ran a 1mm overbore otherwise the same) the new config is a stroker.

I am not going to give you my car weight however I will give you some clues

I don't have
Lardy power steering
Any stereo/speakers/amps or any creature comforts

I have
Carbon bonnet (-10 kilos)
Carbon bumpers (-15 Kilos)
Fibreglass tailgate with Lexan glass (-20 kilos)
Carbon fibre seats (-25 Kilos)
Lightweight race battery (-3 Kilos)
No spare wheel

That lot alone reduces the car weight by over 75 kilos....and is worth around 0.5 of a second over a similar powered car

Heres another clue, get your final drive right, the wrong final ratio will force another shift at the wrong time....the last few yards.
Each gear shift can take up to 3 tenths of a second of your ET (elapsed time) and just to get it in perspective 3 tenths at 100mph is around three car lenths...or the technical term is "an arse whuppin"
Don't underestimate how difficult this is, many people look at it and thinks its just like getting off quick at the traffic lights outside Macdonalds....and many a Skyline scalp has fallen as a result.

 

[SeanDezart]

Reduces the 75kilos from what ? Do you still believe that a standard 240Z weighs in at 1040 kgs ?

So, I won't give you my cars' weight and leave you still guessing why I'm so confident.

At least you've worked out that it's a stroker that'll win a n/a best-time - THAT was developed in the UK over 20 years ago and I'll give you a clue who by - it aint some millionaire !

I was on a 2.8 (Jon ran a 1mm overbore otherwise the same) the new config is a stroker.

I am not going to give you my car weight however I will give you some clues

I don't have
Lardy power steering
Any stereo/speakers/amps or any creature comforts

I have
Carbon bonnet (-10 kilos)
Carbon bumpers (-15 Kilos)
Fibreglass tailgate with Lexan glass (-20 kilos)
Carbon fibre seats (-25 Kilos)
Lightweight race battery (-3 Kilos)
No spare wheel

That lot alone reduces the car weight by over 75 kilos....and is worth around 0.5 of a second over a similar powered car

Rob - things develop over eight years and two turbo cars are up for sale - maybe there's a good reason - a n/a car WILL beat Deans' time in the not-too-distant future.

I have a 2+2 that'll beat 15 seconds but I'm not sure it it's new owner will let me - I'll have to ask.

 

[SKiddell]

THAT was developed in the UK over 20 years ago and I'll give you a clue who by - it aint some millionaire !

1. Stroked engines have been around for decades there are plenty of books on it
2. I am sure that there will be a number of Japanese and Americans that will be surprised to hear that the stroker L6 was developed in the UK
3. Whats this millionaire crap, if your refering to Mr Wood, my words were that he had a million pound business, which was an attempt to substantiate success

If your going to continue to misconstrue and misquote then this discussion is pointless

a n/a car WILL beat Deans' time in the not-too-distant future.

On what basis do you make that statement, clearly not experiance.

Reduces the 75kilos from what ? Do you still believe that a standard 240Z weighs in at 1040 kgs ?

1. Reduced from when I first started drag racing in 2004 when I ran a low 15 on triple 40's....remember drag racing is all about physics, you could run a 12 with 10hp if your car was light enough, you need a referance point.
2. Yes the standard 240Z (minus driver) is around 1040 kilos which is also close to the number used in HSCC scrutineering.

At least you've worked out that it's a stroker that'll win a n/a best-time

Firstly a non stroker has been the quickest (hall of fame) road legal NA S30 (read the Hall of fame definitions before you start confusing the rules of the game) for the past 20 or so years with Steve Adams, Me, Johhny, Dave Porter etc) Sean, it doesnt take many brain cells to work out that you can only make so much power from a given bore/stroke combination (see thread on BMEP) No replacement for displacement.


Having said all that, having a stroker doesnt automatically mean that you will have silly amounts of HP...does it previous strokers to have run the 1/4 mile have been a little ways behind. Its worth adding that probably the most powerfull stroker in the country has throttle bodies on it.

I have a 2+2 that'll beat 15 seconds

proof that you have a lot to learn

Finally this is not about beating anyone, its a personal journey, its all about how far you can go....nothing else, some time ago (years) this forum discussed the subject of drag racing Z's and why we were so far behind "the rest of the world" so I thought I would see what would happen if a concerted effort took place, hence throttle bodies, mapped spark, air box's, loads of carbon and bigger more powerfull setups and 5 years of development etc etc, along the way your always going to fall foul of egos and opinions, some people view this as competition, conflict or challenging their ideas, its not, its just something differant, its a shame we can't all learn from each other but that requires change and change doesnt come easy, particularly to the Z fraternity..... cest la vie

 

[STEVE BURNS]

its a shame we can't all learn from each other but that requires change and change doesnt come easy, particularly to the Z fraternity..... cest la vie

oh how true
track racer poopoo drag racers
drag racers poo pooing show cars owners
show cars owners poopooing road car owners
road car owners poopooing rallycar drivers
Rallycar drivers poopooing hill climb drivers
s30 owners poopooing s130 owners
s130 owners poopooing Z31 owners
Z31 owners poopooing etc etc untill we get to the begining again
with the last in the list poopooing track racers and round and round we go

By god I just wish we could all learn from each other and try and discover that maybe we would enjoy what others are doing and share thier enjoyment

 

[SeanDezart]

Oh wake up and smell the roses you two - business is business - how do think Ricky turns over a million £ business - by sharing it all ? Let's all love each other, put flowers in our hair (well, some of you can, well Burnsie really) and hug each other.

But don't knock the competitive spirit which pushes us to excell and each to their own 'cos multi-purpose cars don't work...........and that's half the challenge here - dragging isn't my think, never will be but I'll give it a go. And giving it a go in my book means goining for it flat out not just participating for fun, to make the numbers up, "it's the taking part that counts" rollocks - it's being there, doing it and riding home proud of the acheivement.

Right, next post - Kiddell.

oh how true
track racer poopoo drag racers
drag racers poo pooing show cars owners
show cars owners poopooing road car owners
road car owners poopooing rallycar drivers
Rallycar drivers poopooing hill climb drivers
s30 owners poopooing s130 owners
s130 owners poopooing Z31 owners
Z31 owners poopooing etc etc untill we get to the begining again
with the last in the list poopooing track racers and round and round we go

By god I just wish we could all learn from each other and try and discover that maybe we would enjoy what others are doing and share thier enjoyment

 

[SeanDezart]

Ha, ha talk about misconstrued……….you read what you want eh ?

1) the reference was that in the UK the strokers have been around AND developed for over 20 years, NOT that they were developed soley and initially in the UK !
2) There is the inference there that dear Mr Wood is NOT inventing or re-inventing something – just copying and improving (hopefully).
3) The millionaire reference was friendly banter young Steve and it’s YOU that quotes the figure every time you mention him (I have the quotes). And I would have thought that racing success would substantiate success not his turnover which is most likely a more accurate reflection of his salesmanship of his work. In any case, lots of zeros don’t impress me, a measly 13seconds and under impresses me.

Somebody go weigh their absolute bog-standard and original 240Z and come back and tell me what it weighs in reality. You’re dreaming Steve if you think it weighs as little as 1040kgs without driver and I’m sorry if that stuffs your bhp calculations using also velocity (African swallow), elapsed time and whether or not the car’s been polished hard enough………….! And if the HSCC use that, all for the better ‘cos it allows the Zs to run lighter (thanks Nissan – ask yourself why Nissan left the weight so low).

The FIA dossier no. 3023 states 920kgs without fuel and the repair kit so the only way to seriously know the weight of your car is to have it weighed on a certified weigh-bridge - that’s what I did, and not begin with some ‘guesstimate’ – shame on you J !

Hmmmm, so since 2004, you’ve been banging your head against the wall with a 2.8 when since 20 years ago, it’s a stroker that’s quicker AND running in the same class ? Dave’s done the and raced them, Fourways did them too, no doubt Ben will be along soon………….hi Ben, go gently on me mate please. Steve, shouldn’t your calculations have told you during the winter of 2004 that a 2.8 just couldn’t cut it ?
Maybe the classes should be sub-divided into standard but FIA allowed 1mm over-bore and greater displacements ? The real challenge would be to have an effectively L24 in a 240Z……….and so on – wouldn’t it ?

I agree with you that strokers don’t automatically mean bootloads of power, big, reliable power yes and then there are the little tweeks to do to gain the last bhp available – you know about these things better than I…………...but I have a good friend ;-) I think that we’re both talking about the same 3.0 litre stroker produced by the same man who knows the same tweeks and then some.

I have a 2+2 that'll beat 15 seconds

proof that you have a lot to learn

So, before you make that statement, tell me what power and weight a 2+2 needs to have to drop under the 15secs ‘cos mine is not far from being finished and will be lighter than the standard 1130kgs quoted.

Oh and this :

a n/a car WILL beat Deans' time in the not-too-distant future.

On what basis do you make that statement, clearly not experiance.

Was a prediction, not a statement and it’s based upon watching people like you develop, experiment and execute – “the times, they are a tumbling” !

Now, if you can’t keep this light-hearted, we’ll pack up the game and stop playing………but I’ll still be over to see you next year and you WILL be surprised.

Not about beating people ? You like the recognition, a bit of glory ? Otherwise whu participate in a challenge ? Your personal goal could be done discreetly couldn't it ? So come out of the closet and be recognised.

The other side of the coin is that one has to swallow hard when some upstart comes along and whups ya !

 

[zbloke]

I don't know if this titbit of information will help or hinder the brainstroming between Skiddy and Sean the Gob, but my 240Z with me in it and a 1/4 tank of fuel came in at 1152Kgs on the scales.......thats steel body panels, full glass, carpets but only drivers seat at the time weighing

 

[SeanDezart]

Yes it does help thanks - the accepted weight of a 240Z is another myth and you're probably closer to the truth.

Where/how did you weigh it ?......................and what did you weigh yourself at the time...........;-) ?

 

[zbloke]

Sean,

I've got a set of corner weight scales/roll back trays and weighed it on them, my weight at the time.......can't remember to be honest.........not much though....

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Would Sean do better with this, instead of his heavy old nail?

Tamiya (58459) 1:10 DF03Ra Datsun 240Z Rally Version on eBay (end time 01-Apr-10 07:38:07 BST)

 

[SeanDezart]

Watch it gramps...........

 

[SKiddell]

Sean

Until you make your points clear, avoid misquoting/misconstruing/twisting and inferring meaning into what has already been said and begin to try and understand the physics behind the internal combustion engine and drag racing rather than spout rhetoric or complete rubbish, I am going to back out of this mudslinging side-show, it serves no other purpose than to increase your post count.

I have nothing to prove to anyone, I owe no one an explanation as to why I do what I do so pick on someone else to wind up, I have an engine to finish off

 

[SKiddell]

Hmm double posty wierdness

 

[STEVE BURNS]

Hmm double posty wierdness

double posty wierdness serves no other purpose than to increase your post count.:lol:

 

[status]

Well said Skids,he is talking bollocks again and like you i have nowt to prove to anybodyeven though my car is quicker than his,i will not respond to silly comments so dont bother,get that engine done steve

 

[SeanDezart]

Listen to the Essex boy.............you've only just crawled out of the Dagenham age.......I've always had more power than you and when you went onto TBs, your power DROPPED , besides, everyone know 260s are heavier then 240Zs AND you've a two-bar.......

Besides.....................mine is 'evolving'.................................................................