My Z faded out... | Page 2 | The Z Club of Great Britain
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My Z faded out...

Discussion in 'General' started by TimFZ, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. dav118118

    dav118118
    Z Club Member

    Interesting position of your pump. I thought the facet pumps were pusher pumps rather than puller pumps. I have the exact same pump but mines positioned up next to the tank pushing fuel down the fuel rail to a pressure regulator in the engine bay.
     
    Paul_S likes this.
  2. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    Yes, not seen that before but don't suppose it matters but it could be more sensitive to pressure drops between tank and pump.

    So my system is tank the large filter on 8mm pipe, then the cars delivery pipe up to another 8mm flexo to pump, then to that debris collector and then 8mm flexes to the fuel rail where each carb is fed from. At least the fuel is not separated or dirty.

    I bought a large new I line filter from our local motor store for £1.75 so much cheaper than the £5.95 on ebay! Also bought some fuel stabiliser for the winter when it won't get used much!
     
  3. moggy240

    moggy240 INSURANCE VALUATIONS OFFICER Staff Member Moderator

    I had my red top fuel pump mounted in the engine bay and did not have any problems fueling triple dellortos, but you are right they are supposed to be mounted near the tank to push the fuel.
     
  4. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Treasurer Staff Member Moderator

    I'm thinking that the garage you bought it from have fitted the electric pump. When I looked this car over I looked in the engine bay to see the engine number (re 2.4 statement). I would have remembered the pump I think. I also notice that you have the mechanical pump still in situ.

    I think from your picture that the return feed is still connected (from fuel rail) so switch the pump on, remove the fuel filler cap and listen to hear the fuel returning. I've done that before.

    20181130_133051.jpg 20181130_142445.jpg 20181130_133104.jpg 20181130_133129.jpg
     
  5. toopy

    toopy
    Z Club Member

    When you say debris collector/swirl pot, do you mean the white/cream coloured object? because that looks like a OEM type fuel filter.

    My Facet is mounted in the engine bay, they are quite happy sucking fuel, as long as the maximum height above the tank is not exceeded.

    When i start mine after a long lay up, i run the pump for a few seconds first, mainly to prime the float bowls, and from the drivers seat you can normally here the fuel trickling back in to the tank on the return line before starting the engine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  6. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    Yes, looks similar to what I was expecting but only top in and out connections and doesn't seem serviceable as cannot be opened. There is nothing in it except a few loose black bits which I got out with a few flushes and carb cleaner. It was pretty blocked with debris before I cleaned it. I would guess if the garage did put that pump in they didn't clean out the filter properly!
     
  7. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    I had a resurgence of this problem. Of course, it was after I had minimal in the tank and then put in 30 litres of 99+ octane. This must have disturbed tank sediment.

    5 miles down the road, a stutter which gets worse and then dies. Now I understand the problem, to get around the 10 miles home, I went under the rear of the car and shook the large post tank filter, in to engine bay and shook the small white filter, and tapped the float bowls. Started straight away and only needed one more repeat on way home.

    I changed the white filter again and now have a replacement large rear filter. Longer term I'm taking out the tank.

    Planning to remove all fuel. Pull out the tank, flush out then use something like Evaporust in the tank to disolve what I can, pressure wash out and then when it's mostly clear, put a litre of diesel in the tank to splash about to prevent rust reoccurring. (obviously remove this before refilling!)

    I will do the same to the two hard fuel lines to be sure they are clear as well. Bit of a winter project!
     
  8. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    Update, my old tank had two fuel connectors of the same size low down in the tank. However it only had two other connections, the 19mm pipe to go and join the filler neck and a single 6mm pipe which appears to be a vent and seems to join straight to the hard-line which leads to front carbon canister. I don't see any evidence of a vapour tank anywhere. Certainly not like the diagrams I have seen on here or in the Haynes manual.

    My new tank is pretty rust free, I flushed it and got just a little dirt and no rust out. It has the two different fuel outlet and smaller return and vents to the lower side (14mm), and two on the top of the bulge (19mm to filler neck and 10mm vent). I plan to use the 10mm outlet as I have squeezed on a pipe which I will use a reducer to the 6mm vent pipe. I will blank off the 14mm vent.

    One question, when refitting the filler flexi plastic, would you recommend a little silicone sealant to ensure its leak proof or a little grease etc? It looks like a potential leak point if this area is not perfect.

    My tank has a working gauge sender. However, looking at the design, why would they use a 12v connection on a sliding connection to vary resistance in the tank. One little spark from this area and the tank could explode! Is this really safe?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. jonbills

    jonbills
    ZClub Administrator
    Moderator

    I think the vapour tank stuff is US market only, my '74 tank has just 4 holes - filler, supply, return and vent.
    silicone sealant isn't fuel safe, so don't put that anywhere near it. it should seal fine unless the pipe is brittle or cracked.
    the gauge sender is really safe. If you want to worry about something, look up rollover test videos for 240z.
     
  10. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    Oh dear....... I just offered up the replacement tank and it won't fit.... It has a slightly larger bulge and is shorter overall.... Can this be right? The 2+2 (2/2) is known to be different in many areas, is this one of them?
     
  11. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    I don't know about anyone else, but the 'Vapour Tank' (actually a 'Vapour Recovery Tank') that I was referring to in your other thread is the one that I would expect to find up inside the rear quarter, inside the car, adjacent to the filler pipe. The reason I mentioned it was because it has a lot of connections with the filler tube and the tank, which need to be taken into account when removing and re-fitting the tank.

    Categorically, a 1975-manufactured Japanese market model WOULD have been fitted with one as it was a legal requirement by that time. But after 45-odd years, who knows what has been changed...?
     
    jonbills likes this.
  12. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    Any thoughts on either the JDM Spec car or the 2+2 having a different tank dimension? It looks like it's the same capacity but slightly different lump to length ratio....
     
  13. Albrecht

    Albrecht Well-Known Forum User

    Again, as I think I tried to point out on your other thread, your particular car's production period is right on the cusp of a number of rapid changes and parts supercessions linked to prep for much more stringent anti-pollution regulations in Japan. Pinning down the exact spec of your car's OEM fuel tank and related components is very difficult and the factory parts lists for the Japanese market models around this time period are a real minefield.

    Added to that, there's no guarantee that the tank in the car is the original in any case. Anything could have happened since it was made. We came across a big question mark in your other thread when you pointed out that both feed and return pipes on your tank were the same size. I was expecting - for a 1975 or earlier non-injection car - for the return to be smaller than the feed, and for there *possibly* to be a vent line linked up to the engine bay, but apparently not the case.

    There are any number of possibilities for size/fit/connections, and most of the English-language data and anecdotes you will find on the 'net apply to Export market cars, and predominantly USA market cars at that. This may lead you astray. The fact is that - as the owner of a fairly rare Japanese market variant - you are going to need to be self-sufficient in parts and information up to a certain point.

    If I were you, I'd try to refurbish the tank that you removed from the car. At least you know it fits...
     
    Rob Gaskin and Paul_S like this.
  14. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    Hi, thanks and this confirms my suspicions that it is different. In fact the tank fits so well in the car, it appears original. The larger bulge on the replacement tank physically won't fit. It was from a 1971 240z but don't know which market.

    Re the vents, I did state there is a vent line going to the front carbon canister. On the original tank this is 6mm output from the tank with a 19mm vent to the filler.

    The two equally sized pipes for send and return could have been replaced at some point I suppose but are rusty inside and neither have a strainer fitted, they are simply a pipe end facing straight down about 3mm from the tank bottom. I think this is why it has a tendency to block easily. I could use the return as the filler which is about 12mm up from the bottom of the tank and will be less likely to block but it will reduce my tank capacity somewhat.

    Refurbing old tank is underway. I may have to bite the bullet in a few years and get a custom made one but they are not cheap!

    So, for anyone else in this situation, its worth checking tank dimensions. My 2/2 tank is longer than the 240z one presumably to make up for the lost capacity.

    Cheers for the help.
     
  15. Farmer42

    Farmer42
    Z Club Member

    I would have thought that a 2/2 tank is bound to be different to a 2-seater 240z as it has to take into account the different shape of the bodywork on the rear end to accommodate the longer wheelbase and the 2 extra seats. I'm pretty sure that the boot floor is a different shape to a 2-seater. Perhaps if you had tried a tank from say a 260 or 280Z 2+2 it may fit better.
     
  16. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    I think that is correct. However, although hard work I don't think mine is beyond help.

    I have used a long flexo on my drill with various wire brush attachments on it to clean the inside. It reaches all the way to the end past the barrier. Starting to look a lot cleaner already. Now washed out again and drying ready for the evaporust treatment later next week.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. TimFZ

    TimFZ
    Z Club Member

    So, looks like I have an excellent 2 seater tank for sale.... Will keep you posted.
     

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