Just followed a 350z roadster

[Russ]

Beautiful cars The Minel, but probably about £500k out of the £27k budget

I tell you what has been surprising. I'm looking into what power can be had from a RB26DE or RB30 engine. And it's not a huge amount more than that of a sorted L6, despite having VVT, DOHC and 20 years newer design.

 

[TheMinel]

what I'm saying here is that the S30 platform is 35 yo and you simply can't say it's better than a Z33 platform, as it just isn't. this whole discussion was started after Sean said a modified S30 is better/faster than a 350Z. This is not true if compared like for like.

as for the above cars, it's the same: if you give a Z33 a £500k makeover and a S30 a £500k makeover, the Z33 will still come up on top. Let's face it, the S30 is a 35yo car design that will not surpass a modern sportscar design.

 

[Russ]

a modified S30 is better/faster than a 350Z

- IT IS!

Unless you say

a modified S30 is better/faster than a modified 350Z

- Different kettle of fish.

You are totally blinkered by age! The original GT40 is no doubt faster than the modern, better, super trick Ford GT. Why? Because back in the day there was little thought given to "how will this survive in a crash" etc. This all adds weight, weight being the most important factor for a cars performance as it affects ALL aspects of it.

Me and my brother can pick my 240z shell up, no problem, with doors still on it. I doubt we could do the same with the 350. Every panel on the S30 is made of thin, flexy metal, I bet the 350 has a much more solid feel. If I crash my S30 it's probably 'good bye legs' where as in a 350 I'd have all sorts of clever impact protection.

If we had £500k to play with then we'd have it fully seam welded, full cage etc, so how is my chassis inferior then?? Ok the 350 might just edge it, but if I'm still 200kg better off it's still bye bye 350. For that money I could fit an RB engine and have 1400bhp if I thought I could use it.... also neither of us has £500k so that's a pointless discussion.

In the REAL WORLD (not £500k 350 fantasy land) the S30 will out perform the 350 pound for pound.

Now lets just agree to disagree

 

[Russ]

Any 300zx owners want to join in??

If I can be bothered I'll upload the Hot Metal drag race of all the Zs, the 300zx walks it and Tony is about a foot away from John Simpsons old 350

 

[Mr.F]

Tony is about a foot away from John Simpsons old 350

The 350 being driven by Jeremy Clarkson with an underhand agenda in mind...

 

[Russ]

I don't know what mods Tony was running at the time, whats the 0-60 for a 350? 6 seconds or there abouts?

No idea what power/weight you'd need in a 8.5 second 260 to do that.

 

[Mr.F]

On standard figures, a stock 350Z weighing in at 3400 pounds carries 12.3 pounds per 1 bhp (excluding additional equipment and weight of driver). A stock 260Z 2 seater (2425 pounds) carries 14.97 pounds per 1 bhp, even assuming that the quoted stock SAE figure of 162 bhp is true (which most 260 owners would have to admit is slightly inflated). BHP quoted as flywheel figures based on manufacturers claims...
Stock 260Z would need an extra 34 bhp to match the 350Z. For comparison, a stock 2300 pound 240Z with 151 bhp equates to 15.23 pounds per 1 bhp, needing another 36 bhp to match the 350Z figure.
Thus you might reach the conclusion that looking at manufacturer's claimed horsepower is not a very reliable way of assessing the situation. In 240Z days the quoted 151 bhp is reasonable; the later 161 bhp for the 260Z is not!

Autocar quoted 350Z 0-60 mph at 5.8 seconds for the 350, 8.0 for the 240Z and 9.9 for the 260Z 2+2. Motor quoted 8.8 seconds for the 260Z 2 seater.

Not considered in this argument much, but the European 300ZX Z32 2+2 with manual box weighs in at 3495 pounds (Hutton - Enthusiast's Companion) which equates to dragging pretty much the same 12.48 pounds per 1 bhp as the 350Z in 280 bhp Euro spec. 0-60 is quoted at just 1/10 second quicker than a 350Z.

Arguments must come down, therefore, to handling ability and driver ability when making track comparisons. In a straight line race, the results are cut and dried - Z32 fractionally ahead of 350Z at 0-60, with 240Z 3 seconds behind, 260Z another second back and the 2+2 a second behind again!
0-100, the 350Z will ease ahead of the Z32, 240Z will be more than 10 seconds behind, 260Z 12 seconds and the 260Z 2+2 wheezing at more than 16 seconds adrift. On top speed, the 260Z 2+2 gives up first at 120 mph, then 240Z at 125 and 260Z 2 seater just ahead at 127. Both the 350Z and the 300ZX go on to top 150 mph with the 350's limit being a fraction higher than the Z32....

Note again, all comparisons stock vs stock from available sources. Real world variables may apply. Not all cars match manufacturer's specifications. Autocar and Motor are well respected journals and their figures are generally quoted as accurate. Ray Hutton is a well respected author and authority on the Z Fairlady models. Lardy drivers will affect real world figures...

 

[Russ]

Luckily despite my height I only tip the scales at around 13 stone That's got to be worth 3 seconds over the quarter heh

So forgetting normal variables (ability to put the power down, driver skill, etc etc) if I can get 200bhp from my 240 am I on to a winner? I know it's torque that counts, and the actual power curves relative to gearing, bla bla, but as a base line...?

 

[STEVE BURNS]

Not that I want to enter into this but just wondering if anyone one knows what stock model up to 1982 had the quickest 0-various mph times and also what model had the highest top speed

Oh dear would it be that thing of porcine flabiness the 280ZX Turbo
4mph faster than a stock 240Z
2mph faster than a stock 260Z

 

[Russ]

That's a lot of turbo for 4mph!

 

[grolls]

That's a lot of turbo for 4mph!

I think you will find it's the "old Lag" problem!

 

[STEVE BURNS]

why not just admit the 240 was just a bloody snail and vastly over rated

 

[TheMinel]

- IT IS!

Unless you say...

- Different kettle of fish.

nope. it's you 2 that started comparing a modified car vs a standard one. wtf is that all about? talking about not making any sense in comparing different cars... you don't tell me anything new when saying a modified car is most probably faster than a standard car... no matter what cars they are. what sense does it make in comparing them in the first place???? you lot are just trying to convince yourselves that 35yo cars are better than modern cars. Talking about blinkered views

wanna compare standard vs standard then? same story Z33 > S30. see? I always win oh just noticed, Mr.F has just done that

 

[SeanDezart]

This has to be my favorite race 240 of all time, lets see your stripped out 350's and your ugly pugs beat this, even standing still its got them licked

This is the Spirit Garage 240Z (featured in the best motoring series ) its no set up though, this thing is serious, deadly serious and I want one, in fact I am just weighing up which part of my anatomy to sell in order to fund the build.
Triple 50 solex on an bored and stroked L24 giving 2751cc, 560 thou cam lift and steel internals has to be kicking out around 300+ Hp and weigh less than 1000 kilos

Not Throttle Bodies then ?

 

[SeanDezart]

that Z looks nice, old style but nice

PS 300+ hp/1000kg from a 2.7L is not the best thing since sliced bread.
Xanavi Nismo Nissan 350 Z [2,997cc tc, 500bhp, 1,080 kg]

wonder how it'd fare against this baby

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0504_scc_nissan_350z/index.html

From a SOHC and 111 bhp per litr IT IS !

 

[SeanDezart]

In 240Z days the quoted 151 bhp is reasonable...

151 was always a gross figure though Mike and therefore only 130 BHP flywheel NET

Ray Hutton is a well respected author and authority on the Z Fairlady models. Lardy drivers will affect real world figures...

This si the man in whose article Bright Green Pleasure Machine happily stated that revving up to 7000 is easy and rewarding........also the man in a comparison between a 240Z and a Alfo GTV, preferred the Alfa...........

 

[SeanDezart]

Hey The Minel - all those cars you've quoted runin the same series right ? Shame we haven't seen them yet at Le Mans but then again, much as I hate them the Porsches will probably eat 'em alive and Nissan can't afford another nose in the dirt season !

The 240Z was there AND the first Japanese car to qualify/finish - but then - IT IS AN OVER-RATED CAR eh Burnsie ?

 

[Russ]

£ for £ the S30 is quicker

Anyway it's definately the best looking Z produced.... don't feel bad, if it hadn't been so good there'd be no 350z

 

[SeanDezart]

don't feel bad, if it hadn't been so good there'd be no 350z

LOL !

 

[Russ]

Seriously though, all Zs are great in their own way.

Does anyone have a pic of a stripped 350 (or Z32 for that matter) as I'd be interested to see what they look like inside without all the stuff. Must be one somewhere.

I'm looking forward to 20 years time when I'm arguing that the 350 is still faster £ for £ than a 850Z or a 110vZ, whatever the future brings