Is the Nissan Z poised to become the next 911?

[Huw]

This is an interesting article.
Maybe the humble 280ZX and z31 300ZX might find a bit more love these days. Especially for those people who only consider monitory value the true measure of worth.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/nissan-z-next-911/

 

[SeanDezart]

Maybe the humble 280ZX and z31 300ZX might find a bit more love these days. Especially for those people who only consider monitory value the true measure of worth.

I don't buy and own S30s for their value....

And I've been saying it for a couple of years now : A new Z era - it's on my signature !

 

[richiep]

I don't buy and own S30s for their value....

You spend enough time talking about their worth and remonstrating with others about how they undervalue them! ;P

I actually think it's somewhat depressing. Articles like that get up my nose. A 911-like trend will cement them being priced out of the average enthusiast's reach, and making them the domain of "collectors" and old farts. Project cars will become overvalued and lots of tat will be hawked by chancers. The younger generation that view them as the cool progenitors of the Jap scene will stand no chance.

Bloody boomers.

 

[jonbills]

Hey, what's wrong with old farts Richie?

 

[SeanDezart]

You spend enough time talking about their worth and remonstrating with others about how they undervalue them! ;P

I actually think it's somewhat depressing. Articles like that get up my nose. A 911-like trend will cement them being priced out of the average enthusiast's reach, and making them the domain of "collectors" and old farts. Project cars will become overvalued and lots of tat will be hawked by chancers. The younger generation that view them as the cool progenitors of the Jap scene will stand no chance.

Seriously ?

Where were people like you when I wanted a Miura ?

There are others on here who like the idea of high prices promoting exclusivity and rarity.

Yes - I do say that people under-valued their cars or don't have them insurance estimated - that is for their benefit, not mine.

There are still plenty of 'youngsters' buying S30s today; I believe they are both richer then we were and perhaps staying at home longer so more buying power then us that were burdened with mortgages before 25 yrs old !

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

You spend enough time talking about their worth and remonstrating with others about how they undervalue them! ;P

I actually think it's somewhat depressing. Articles like that get up my nose. A 911-like trend will cement them being priced out of the average enthusiast's reach, and making them the domain of "collectors" and old farts. Project cars will become overvalued and lots of tat will be hawked by chancers. The younger generation that view them as the cool progenitors of the Jap scene will stand no chance.

Bloody boomers.

Agreed. Its also in the interest of those who publish that article to try and move prices on.

 

[SeanDezart]

It's in everybodys' interest that values rise.

 

[atomman]

Splits prices pushed up the price of Bay windows and T25's ....

Early SWB 911's prices pushed up the later models....

Mk1 escorts pushed up the price of mk2's etc etc etc.......

Its the price of the early sort after models that push up the price of the later , people cant afford them so they buy the next best thing hoping/thinking that they will go up the same amount and also because they cant afford the early stuff and can still be in the 'Gang' and jump on the Band wagon , ( NOT every one of course ! , some people do really like the other models though) and some people don't want all the resto costs of an old car

This then brings all the prices up to where only the few can afford them , When I owned my 65' Porsche a motoring journalist I know had just brought one to , funny enough in the following months a article came out saying they were the next big thing........written by Him

Muira 's have always been relatively expensive and VERY exclusive unlike all of the above

all my own opinion of course

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

It's in everybodys' interest that values rise.

No its not.

 

[SeanDezart]

No its not.

You've only paid for the 10mins argument session.....

This is all hypothetic - prices are rising !

I'd be very interested to know the official club opinion upon rising prices - good or bad ?

Muira 's have always been relatively expensive and VERY exclusive unlike all of the above

all my own opinion of course

EVERYTHING is relatively expensive !

I paid less for my current 240 in 2001 than I did for the previous 240 in 1989.

I wish I hadn't sold my TA23ST for £1000 in 1993 when I emigrated, not because of their current day worth but as I want a TA today, it's going to cost me more......but I had a grand back then when I needed it.....'worth' and 'value' are indeed 'relative' !

Miuras - there was a moment when I was a major that they hovered for a long while at around £80k and I had a house worth about £65......it was within reach.......!

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

You've only paid for the 10mins argument session.....

This is all hypothetic - prices are rising !

I'd be very interested to know the official club opinion upon rising prices - good or bad ?

I'm not sure what you mean about 10 mins.

I'm just saying, its not in everyones interest. its nice that people use them, lets face it, there's loads of them in the US still. what are the plus points of them being worth 10's of ££££'s for regular models?

I doubt the 'club' has an official response, why should they? They're here because they like the cars. not to drive prices up.

 

[richiep]

Hey, what's wrong with old farts Richie?

Yeah, was a bit unkind. Especially as I advance dangerously closer to old fart territory. I'm sure most 20 year-olds would think I'm well past it these days!!!

I just think it is sad that inaccessibility creeps in to these things. Fewer people get to experience them, and more will tend to disappear - collectors and wealthier owners don't often tend to really share their ownership so to speak.

As an owner, in an abstract sense, the value rising is pleasing. And I have always advocated making sure people value their cars properly and generously for insurance purposes as replacing a car to the standard one may have built one up to is very different from what a sale price might be. It's just irksome that project cars and those with demonstrable issues are having asking prices attached to them that are, IMO, increasingly inflated and out of step with what they really should be worth when one considers the work necessary to get a good vehicle out of them.

If you really want to see eye-watering rises, spend some time looking at the prices attached to various classic Nissans in Japan now. That's why my latest toy is a Toyota! They haven't quite taken off yet like Zs and Skylines, but the trend is obvious. By the time I'm in a position where I can grab my coveted Hakosuka, it will be a painful experience for the pocket!

 

[Rob Gaskin]

I was driving locally in my Samuri on Saturday. An MX5 came the other way and 5 mins later was behind me. It followed me for quite a way and I was thinking that he either wanted a 'race' or wanted to know where is was garaged. I stopped at some traffic lights and it pulled alongside - it was a young lad who gave a bit smile and 'thumbs up'. He would have loved to own it I'm sure. My lads think Datsuns are too old but they would jump at the chance if I booked a trackday.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

I was driving locally in my Samuri on Saturday. An MX5 came the other way and 5 mins later was behind me. It followed me for quite a way and I was thinking that he either wanted a 'race' or wanted to know where is was garaged. I stopped at some traffic lights and it pulled alongside - it was a young lad who gave a bit smile and 'thumbs up'. He would have loved to own it I'm sure. My lads think Datsuns are too old but they would jump at the chance if I booked a trackday.

you could have said, "well actually you can own this very one"!

 

[Albrecht]

There are others on here who like the idea of high prices promoting exclusivity and rarity.

How do high prices promote "exclusivity and rarity"? This is a non-sequitur.

'Exclusivity' is a subjective concept whilst 'Rarity' is a finite definition of examples made & examples still extant. Rising prices are a consequence of requirement vs availability, and do not in themselves influence said requirement and availability. It's the same situation as with truffles, van Gogh artworks and Georgian townhouses in Central London. All of these things are perfectly accessible if you have enough money to pay for them, and go along with the idea of them being 'worth it'.

And I've been saying it for a couple of years now : A new Z era - it's on my signature !

I don't see any "new Z era". It just sounds like some kind of Cillit Bang! style marketing slogan. There is some fresh 'newbie' interest and attention for the S30-series marque (largely driven by the likes of Instagram and YouTube) but still the same old USA-centric narrative, lack of understanding with regard to the history and significance, and a strong and lasting bias toward non-period modernising/customising and here today, gone tomorrow fads.

The era of the IC-engined personal motor car is coming to a close and we are well into the cheese and crackers part of the meal.

 

[SeanDezart]

....."no it isn't....''

So now, apparently, it's not in 'everyones' interest......? Although I note your use of 'regular' models......whatever that means in a world of personalised and modified Zs ?

Wth has value to do with use ?

Have people stopped racing in valuable cars ? https://www.goodwood.com/grr/event-...018/8/most-expensive-motor-race-in-the-world/

Have people stopped using them on the streets ? My wife drives everyday of the week to work and back in her 280Z. Yes, it drinks more and of more expensive fuel than her Audi A3 but the pleasure outweighs costs.

Friday I picked up my daughter from college in mine....these are not museum pieces, we're agreed upon that and even limited-mileage policies allow for several thousand per year without penalty so why should a higher value restrict use ?

I doubt the 'club' has an official response, why should they? They're here because they like the cars. not to drive prices up.

'they' ? Who are 'they ? A club is an association of people.

I didn't suggest the club were here to manipulate prices up or down but there should be an official view !

But the club IS here to promote the marque, promotion means exposition amonst other things and seen becomes coveted - that's why the young love our cars - they've seen them and in games and on the net !

How do high prices promote "exclusivity and rarity"? This is a non-sequitur.

'Exclusivity' is a subjective concept whilst 'Rarity' is a finite definition of examples made & examples still extant. Rising prices are a consequence of requirement vs availability, and do not in themselves influence said requirement and availability. It's the same situation as with truffles, van Gogh artworks and Georgian townhouses in Central London. All of these things are perfectly accessible if you have enough money to pay for them, and go along with the idea of them being 'worth it'.

I don't see any "new Z era". It just sounds like some kind of Cillit Bang! style marketing slogan. There is some fresh 'newbie' interest and attention for the S30-series marque (largely driven by the likes of Instagram and YouTube) but still the same old USA-centric narrative, lack of understanding with regard to the history and significance, and a strong and lasting bias toward non-period modernising/customising and here today, gone tomorrow fads.

"All of these things are perfectly accessible if you have enough money to pay for them, and go along with the idea of them being 'worth it'" Rarity promotes exclusivity - only for those who can and are willing to pay for it.

"There is some fresh 'newbie' interest and attention for the S30-series marque" I'm guessing your term of 'newbie' is your antonym for 'old-fart' ? What you're omitting is that there is a LOT of new interest and that is from all ages which is great for the marque 'cos old-farts die off and we need new blood to own these cars and look after them in the future. New owners wheether they be young, middle-aged or otherwise equals a new Z era - before they were on the fringe of the Classic car world, now they're in your face which, imo is some 'awesome' and well-overdue recognition of their and Nissans' brilliance.

There still is the same old USA narrative and it's because, unlike most other models, no-one with the knowledge and facts has come forward in the Anglo-Saxon world aside from Brian Long and he's a journalist, not a long-passionnant S30 fan and owner.

I just think it is sad that inaccessibility creeps in to these things. Fewer people get to experience them, and more will tend to disappear - collectors and wealthier owners don't often tend to really share their ownership so to speak.

It's just irksome that project cars and those with demonstrable issues are having asking prices attached to them that are, IMO, increasingly inflated and out of step with what they really should be worth when one considers the work necessary to get a good vehicle out of them.

If you really want to see eye-watering rises, spend some time looking at the prices attached to various classic Nissans in Japan now. That's why my latest toy is a Toyota! They haven't quite taken off yet like Zs and Skylines, but the trend is obvious.

Don't know about you chaps but if I have an opportunity to take someone for a ride in my Z - I do so, same at shows, bums on seats - let them see the view and feel the wheel; simply put - share the experience.

There will always be the rather selfish 'collector' who hides his car away - his loss too as these were conceived to be driven - THAT's where the pleasure is, outdoors. But most owners use theirs in varying degrees over a 12x month period. Perhaps not frequently, perhaps for 1x long run in one go...

Toys haven't taken off - are you kidding ?

https://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/1963052542.htm

https://www.anibis.ch/fr/automobiles-voitures de tourisme--x/x--36069373.aspx

https://www.carforyou.ch/fr/auto/x/x/x/x-1965790

https://www.leparking.fr/voiture-occasion/toyota-celica.html

 

[richiep]

I'm talking about relative to the comparable Nissans in Japan. Zs, Skylines, and Laurels all up north of £50k, Celicas, Corollas, Carinas, all still in the £20-30k range for similar quality vehicles.

There's so few TAs and RAs in the UK now that who knows what the market looks like. Prices are more governed by what it costs to get one from Japan - the best ones here are the RA25s, TA27s, and RA28s that are JDM. Most UK cars turned to iron oxide decades ago!

 

[Ped]

This is an interesting article.
Maybe the humble 280ZX and z31 300ZX might find a bit more love these days. Especially for those people who only consider monitory value the true measure of worth.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/nissan-z-next-911/

I think it's good new for all Z owners. I had noticed the 280zx prices rising substantially over the last few years. I guess the thing to remember is that a 30 year old today, looks back to their 'dream car' which they wanted from the age of 10. So, a 2001 car to them is nostalgia.

 

[Albrecht]

"All of these things are perfectly accessible if you have enough money to pay for them, and go along with the idea of them being 'worth it'" Rarity promotes exclusivity - only for those who can and are willing to pay for it.

You said that high prices "promote exclusivity and rarity", as though rising prices somehow (I've no idea how) have an effect on rarity. There are cars and parts that I have been chasing for decades, but rising prices have not made them rarer. Their rarity is finite. And the concept of 'exclusivity' requires that some have access, and some don't. That's always been the case. The cost of acquisition went up, that's all.

"There is some fresh 'newbie' interest and attention for the S30-series marque" I'm guessing your term of 'newbie' is your antonym for 'old-fart' ?

Nope. 'Newbie' is not age group-defined.

The thread topic itself is an example of typically USA-centric spiel about a Japanese car, comparing it to a German car, but all viewed from a typically USA-centric mindset. We see this type of thing almost every week nowadays.

You'd have to be pretty blinkered not to notice that much of the narrative around these cars is USA-centric, but our poor unwitting 'newbie' is probably going to swallow it all whole. Hence we still get zhome.com cited as reference material and Larry Chen's enthusiastic but ill-informed videos getting millions of hits. When the press department of Nissan Motors cites Yutaka Katayama as "the Designer of the 240Z" it is clear that we jumped the shark some time ago.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

....."no it isn't....''

So now, apparently, it's not in 'everyones' interest......? Although I note your use of 'regular' models......whatever that means in a world of personalised and modified Zs ?

Wth has value to do with use ?

Have people stopped racing in valuable cars ? https://www.goodwood.com/grr/event-...018/8/most-expensive-motor-race-in-the-world/

Have people stopped using them on the streets ? My wife drives everyday of the week to work and back in her 280Z. Yes, it drinks more and of more expensive fuel than her Audi A3 but the pleasure outweighs costs.

Friday I picked up my daughter from college in mine....these are not museum pieces, we're agreed upon that and even limited-mileage policies allow for several thousand per year without penalty so why should a higher value restrict use ?




'they' ? Who are 'they ? A club is an association of people.

I didn't suggest the club were here to manipulate prices up or down but there should be an official view !

But the club IS here to promote the marque, promotion means exposition amonst other things and seen becomes coveted - that's why the young love our cars - they've seen them and in games and on the net !

It's in everybodys' interest that values rise.

you've said its in everyones interest(your post is above). I said 'no its not', as its not in my interest nore is it a goal.

I sit in the camp as a fan only.

Others sit in the camp to make money only.

Some sit in both.