Why a rear spoiler ?

[SeanDezart]

Some markets had them - others didn't. Your hypothesies why some had them.........?

 

[mattbibbey]

Probably to do with how fast they'd be taking what kind of corners I would hypothesise. We have lots of the twisty stuff and we drive faster than say the yanks do/can and I saw an old article a while ago about the cornering and down force on the 240Z vs MGB GT. It stated the down forces created at 70mph- front and rear. The 240Z creates a significant amount of downforce at both front and rear (it was fitted with the rear spoiler) whereas the MBG GT actually created a significant amount of lift at this high speed!! But as for why, I guess it's the speed of the average journey back then. USA- low speed limits and straight roads. UK, rest of Europe, Oz etc - much quicker speed limits and very twisty roads I suppose.

What do you think about it mate?

 

[SeanDezart]

.............and I saw an old article a while ago about the cornering and down force on the 240Z vs MGB GT. It stated the down forces created at 70mph- front and rear.

Article in Sports Car Graphic, March 1970 - measures taken at 100mp/h.

The 240Z creates a significant amount of downforce at both front and rear (it was fitted with the rear spoiler) whereas the MBG GT actually created a significant amount of lift at this high speed!!

No, the Z had NO rear spoiler fitted and the Opel GT had lift AND a rear lip (type spoiler).

 

[us2]

Were these spoilers were fitted as a marketing ploy, to make the cars look a little racier.?
I have a NZ new 240 with no spoilers, front or rear . Anything above about 70 mph she becomes lighter in the front. Is this usual?

 

[SeanDezart]

Mine has no front or rear spoiler and doesn't lift - at least it didn't last weekend at 205km/h.

So .................... ?

C'mon guys - ideas, thoughts, experiences..................!!!!!

 

[Nigel Brook]

Had two 240 UK spec cars, both with factory rear spoilers.

 

[rahail240]

i haven't seen a u.k spec car without a front and rear spoiler.
but most gay u.s spec cars like yours sean, are without.

and it was 20.5 km/h you were doing you french porn star..........

do they have a specsavers in france??

 

[rahail240]

seriously though, i think because seans car is lowered, it must have an affect.
most users quote nose feeling light at higher speeds without spoilers.

 

[SeanDezart]

Let's not wander at speed - the subject is REAR spoilers !

Why were they put on at the factory (and not for other markets) ?

For what purpose do they serve ?

Rahail - I wasn't driving but a passenger on the A65 to Pau, we had the GPS and the Coyote working and if I'd thought for a minute that no-one would believe the speed, I'd have taken a photo, as it is, I only took one of outside :

 

[madmarco]

I agree this was strictly a marketing exercise. They were not included in the US (their primary target market) because marketing focus grrops indicated potential customers prefered the car without. They were included in other markets for exactly the same reason. There is also the cost involved, the same marketing folks determined that the US customers would demand a price in line with the domestic market, so all "accessories" not strictly required were removed. The functional diference on a street car driven at the legal limit will always be negligible.

 

[Albrecht]

I agree this was strictly a marketing exercise. They were not included in the US (their primary target market) because marketing focus grrops indicated potential customers prefered the car without.

"Marketing focus groups"? What marketing focus groups?

There were no, repeat no "marketing focus groups" involved in the concept, design and engineering of the S30-series Z as it appeared at launch. Later, much later maybe, but not before launch.

If you have any source for this story, then please hook me up with it as I could do with a good laugh. Does it by any chance come from a USA-based source?

They were included in other markets for exactly the same reason.

Nonsense. The first rear spoiler design was developed ( and wind tunnel tested ) for the Fairlady Z432-R model and was designed TO WORK. It was also offered as a 'Sports Option' part for the other S30 models in the Japanese market, and Nissan explained its function in their literature of the period.

The ( subtly different ) rear spoiler & front spoiler 'package' seen on the UK and mainland European market models was designed and engineered with function in mind, and a small team from Nissan spent some considerable time and effort testing these parts on European roads with Japanese-registered factory test cars.

There is also the cost involved, the same marketing folks determined that the US customers would demand a price in line with the domestic market, so all "accessories" not strictly required were removed.

The north American market cars were arguably 'built down to a price', and there was some wrangling between sides as to what bells and whistles the production cars would get. You could say that the north American cars were 'dumbed down and softened up' to suit that market ( rightly knowing that much of the market was about looks rather than real perfomance, or wrongly underestimating the sector of that market which DID appreciate sporting performance, depending on your point of view ) so there were many details which helped to make them cheaper ( the 4-speed non-overdrive trans and tall diff ratio combo, the lack of a rear ARB, no carpets or HRW on first imports etc ) but also many items included that did NOT keep prices down.

In any case, the aftermarket soon stepped in to fill the gap.

 

[SeanDezart]

I'm wondering if Nissan decided that there was another benefit of the rear spoiler.........that of effectively reducing or eliminating exhaust fumes inside the car...........?

Which markets my Count had a rear spoiler as standard and which had them as factory and showroom options (ie Nissan parts and not BRE or anyone else) please ?

 

[madmarco]

"Marketing focus groups"? What marketing focus groups?

There were no, repeat no "marketing focus groups" involved in the concept, design and engineering of the S30-series Z as it appeared at launch. Later, much later maybe, but not before launch.

If you have any source for this story, then please hook me up with it as I could do with a good laugh. Does it by any chance come from a USA-based source?

Interesting, my statement was not based on a source, but of knowledge of manufacturing industries. So your saying a bunch of Engineers locked up in a room came up with the design with no design brief or specifications? No potential customers or sales personel were consulted?

Nonsense. The first rear spoiler design was developed ( and wind tunnel tested ) for the Fairlady Z432-R model and was designed TO WORK. It was also offered as a 'Sports Option' part for the other S30 models in the Japanese market, and Nissan explained its function in their literature of the period.

The ( subtly different ) rear spoiler & front spoiler 'package' seen on the UK and mainland European market models was designed and engineered with function in mind, and a small team from Nissan spent some considerable time and effort testing these parts on European roads with Japanese-registered factory test cars.

So you already thought you knew the answer to Sean's question, but just waited until someone posted an answer you could flame?

The north American market cars were arguably 'built down to a price', and there was some wrangling between sides as to what bells and whistles the production cars would get. You could say that the north American cars were 'dumbed down and softened up' to suit that market ( rightly knowing that much of the market was about looks rather than real perfomance, or wrongly underestimating the sector of that market which DID appreciate sporting performance, depending on your point of view ) so there were many details which helped to make them cheaper ( the 4-speed non-overdrive trans and tall diff ratio combo, the lack of a rear ARB, no carpets or HRW on first imports etc ) but also many items included that did NOT keep prices down.

In any case, the aftermarket soon stepped in to fill the gap.

So, I was right on this point?

 

[vipergts]

What ever the reason I need one.

Any good ones available???

 

[Albrecht]

Interesting, my statement was not based on a source, but of knowledge of manufacturing industries. So your saying a bunch of Engineers locked up in a room came up with the design with no design brief or specifications? No potential customers or sales personel were consulted?

Hang on, you wrote:

They were not included in the US (their primary target market) because marketing focus grrops indicated potential customers prefered the car without. They were included in other markets for exactly the same reason

....which sounds like you have FACTS at hand. Turns out you have no evidence of what any "focus groups" may or may not have put forward, let alone any proof that they even existed in the form you implied. You just dreamed it up yourself then.....?

Of course there were marketing and advertising people involved, but you give far too much imaginary power to the USA side of it. The fact was that the creation of the S30-series Z range - as seen at launch - was down to engineers, designers and stylists in Japan. How you can write that potential customers had any input ( I remind you, you wrote: "...potential customers preferred the car without..." ) or that they had even seen images of the car - both with and without rear spoilers - before launch is beyond me. It just didn't happen like that. Don't make it up!

So you already thought you knew the answer to Sean's question, but just waited until someone posted an answer you could flame?

Yes that's right. I usually just lay in wait here like a giant house spider, until the 'right' type of fly gets caught in my web.

Either that or you wrote something that came out of the top of your hat, and I picked you up on it. Choose which scenario you prefer.

So, I was right on this point?

I'm saying that it was more complicated than that. If the "US market" cars were bereft of all "accessories not strictly required", then how come they still got a clock, hubcaps, bumper over-riders, rubber-strip bumper trims, a radio and antenna, a wander light and several other items that were not seen on - for comparison - the super-basic 'S30-S' Fairlady Z model in Japan? In truth, the north American market 'HLS30-U' model had rather more in common with the Deluxe 'S30' Fairlady Z-L model, but with a few bits taken off and the whole thing softened up. "Softening up" the car arguably cost them more than leaving be.

Not as simple as you made out, then. There's a lot more to these cars, and the story behind their creation, than people usually like to believe.

 

[madmarco]

Apoligies if I insinuated my ideas were based on fact, Sean asked for hypothesies so I threw a couple out there (after pulling them out my ass).

 

[Paul_S]

I have stupid question to ask...

Is there a difference between a spoiler and a wing? I've always thought a wing allows the air to pass under it whereas a spoiler sits directly on top of the body.

Does anyone know?

 

[zbloke]

Nonsense. The first rear spoiler design was developed ( and wind tunnel tested ) for the Fairlady Z432-R model and was designed TO WORK. It was also offered as a 'Sports Option' part for the other S30 models in the Japanese market, and Nissan explained its function in their literature of the period.

The ( subtly different ) rear spoiler & front spoiler 'package' seen on the UK and mainland European market models was designed and engineered with function in mind, and a small team from Nissan spent some considerable time and effort testing these parts on European roads with Japanese-registered factory test cars.

Count,

Do you have a picture of the first rear spoiler design? and how was it subtly different from the ones seen on UK and mainland European market models?

 

[SeanDezart]

Hmmm, lower or taller ?

 

[Albrecht]

Do you have a picture of the first rear spoiler design? and how was it subtly different from the ones seen on UK and mainland European market models?

Hopefully the pics will speak for themselves: