White 240Z Yorks.

Albrecht

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Zed-the-red said:
I am against this practice of re shelling cars. Using a shell from the States. For one its not a UK car anymore is it? The UK car died to give life to this clone. I am not sure of the way its done but I would assume. The only original bits may be the grafted in like the bulkhead with its VIN number, engine,box, dash and maybe some running gear.
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But that's categorically NOT what has happened with the car in question.

The car that is the subject of this thread is not a "re-shell". It is still fundamentally the same car that left the factory - still occupying the same philosophical 'space in time' that it always has done - and has simply been converted from LHD to RHD configuration. It still uses the original 'HLS30' prefixed chassis number (chassis type prefix and body serial number combo) that it was issued when it was new. It's the same car....

Do you understand this?

Zed-the-red said:
The rest is well is, American.
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It's all Japanese, actually.

Zed-the-red said:
I have a genuine UK car of the same age. Its restored using its original body all of its original bits except a couple of front wings. I spent 3 years doing this and to see this clone makes my blood boil...
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It's not a "clone". In fact, I'd say it's very likely that it's more 'original' than your car....

Zed-the-red said:
Not happy with this practice at all.. its a misrepresentation of a UK car. The cars are monocoque construction and the body is some 90% of the actual car. By replacing it then having the cheek to register it on the old cars VIN number is wrong very wrong.
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It's not being 'misrepresented', and the body has not been 'replaced'. You appear to have completely misunderstood what it is you are looking at.

Your timing is, er, interesting to say the very least.....
 
Zed-the-red

Zed-the-red

Well-Known Forum User
Dale said:
This car isn't claiming to be anything other than a genuine US car that has been converted to RHD. It's on it's US VIN too.

So a clone of what exactly?!
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Okay so this one is a conversion to RHD but that does not excuse the fact that there are some out there which are not and are not what they claim to be..
 
Albrecht

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Zed-the-red said:
Okay so this one is a conversion to RHD but that does not excuse the fact that there are some out there which are not and are not what they claim to be..
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So start a thread about them, and cite examples.

You're way off course on this thread, and with relation to this car....
 
Zed-the-red

Zed-the-red

Well-Known Forum User
Albrecht said:
But that's categorically NOT what has happened with the car in question.

The car that is the subject of this thread is not a "re-shell". It is still fundamentally the same car that left the factory - still occupying the same philosophical 'space in time' that it always has done - and has simply been converted from LHD to RHD configuration. It still uses the original 'HLS30' prefixed chassis number (chassis type prefix and body serial number combo) that it was issued when it was new. It's the same car....

Do you understand this?



It's all Japanese, actually.



It's not a "clone". In fact, I'd say it's very likely that it's more 'original' than your car....



It's not being 'misrepresented', and the body has not been 'replaced'. You appear to have completely misunderstood what it is you are looking at.

Your timing is, er, interesting to say the very least.....
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I feel a lot of feathers have been ruffled here. Timing has nothing to do with the fact that the car may or not be the car that left the factory in Japan. It left there as a left hand drive and should still be a left hand drive in my opinion. Why mess with something that's pretty good..

Unless that is the owner took it upon himself to, for his own convenience and driving pleasure convert his LHD car to RHD.. that's a different matter. As long as it keeps its original body and identity..and is registered as such. Which { my apologies} I can now see that it does. I can see the sense in that... BUT..

I can also see in my feeble mind that the difference between the values of LHD and RHD here in the UK with the lack of RHD 240Z on the market.

Getting to originality. My car is 90% original, apart from a couple of wings.. I still have the old ones.. sporting its original interior, body, engine, running gear, trim, lights, wiring and the rest of the bits that make up a 240Z.. It came with original UK rust which has taken out and replaced with new metal.. I would say that's the missing 10% ...

The ebay car is original yes. But with a whole host of new components to make it RHD so I would say we are about done.

It looks like I may have been a tad hasty with this car as long as its totally legit and registered on its original identity then I have no issues with it. So sorry for that.. But my original moan / rant still stands that there are cars out there that pro port to be one thing and they are in fact another.. Thats what riles me so much.. The ebay car is excused. its a very nice machine.. creep
 
SeanDezart

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
I'm not getting at you here please note.

So now the class system inevitably creeps in ?

Top value :

completely original RHD UK market 240Z which Botnar actually used to go see his accountant.
completely original RHD UK market 240Z
Almost (95%) completely original RHD UK market 240Z and decreasing in quantities of 5%
Modified RHD UK market 240Z but no engine swap
Modified RHD UK market 240Z but with engine swap
Other orginal RHD market cars in various original or otherwise states
Converted from LHD to RHD cars (list the types of conversions and cars' IDs......)
LHD cars

Too complicated - let the market on the day decide but it has been said by The Count here and repeated that one day 'la merde vont taper le ventilo' when prices have raised and some cars are discovered not to be what they seem.

Not the case here - the future buyer will get what was described and paid for........and maybe doesn't give a sh*t so long as he has a beautiful original looking and feeling 240Z.....?

Maybe it's us who have the biggest problem with conversions...?
 
Albrecht

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Zed-the-red said:
I feel a lot of feathers have been ruffled here.
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I can only speak for myself in answer to that, and what ruffles my feathers the most about these cars and the *scene* around them is when people clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

Bad information, bad data, poorly informed opinion. This is supposed to be The Information Age, but people don't seem to be able to absorb what is so readily available to them. It drives me insane.


Zed-the-red said:
Ban them.. get rid of them its not the car that left the factory is it.. its the idea of the car is all. no soul no history, IMHO
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Big Sam, coming to a scrapyard near you....

I'd rather be pragmatic, and judge such things on a case-by-case basis.
 
Alphabettispaghetti

Alphabettispaghetti

Club Member
I think the LHD to RHD conversion we're talking about looks nicer than the other white one thats for sale. It may be the pics but it seems more cohesive and a little less show and shine, almost like the second one is trying too hard?
 
datsfun

datsfun

Club Member
£25k, reserve not met:confused:...where are the buyers with deep pockets who want A1 quality cars ? Not on ebay thats for sure.:smash:
 
Z

zedhed

Club Member
The white RHD converted car on eBay would never need any welding (factory pristine), but UK cars almost always do.

One might assume both white cars have had way more than the asking price spent on them, unless anyone knows any different?

I think the most important thing I have learnt from my 1st contract restoration (and experiences of all the "specialsts" in the UK restoration business so far), is not how much work has been done, but rather how well it's been done, and by whom.

These are now the major criteria, as the Z starts to become a sought after investment. The value of cars prepared by sub-standard shops just won't survive the information age. Bodges no longer cut it.

It is obvious to me there's a big gap in the market in the UK for an genuine and honest company who prepares these cars to a high standard, so I will wait to see what comes along before investing more.

Just some musings over my morning coffee...
 
SeanDezart

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
zedhed said:
These are now the major criteria, as the Z starts to become a sought after investment. The value of cars prepared by sub-standard shops just won't survive the information age. Bodges no longer cut it.

It is obvious to me there's a big gap in the market in the UK for an genuine and honest company who prepares these cars to a high standard, so I will wait to see what comes along before investing more.
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Perhaps until now, the quantity (and quality ?) of customers prepared to pay what it takes has been absent or more generously, meagre to sustain such a company long-term ?
 
Z

zedhed

Club Member
SeanDezart said:
Perhaps until now, the quantity (and quality ?) of customers prepared to pay what it takes has been absent or more generously, meagre to sustain such a company long-term ?
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Not so sure about that, in fact, quality isn't implicitly based on price (if it were I'd be a multi millionaire by now). Actually, some of the specialist companies I've had experiences with have been around for many years, and they certainly weren't shy of charging big money for small jobs - and in some cases didn't actually even do the work. In fact, the best experience I've had so far is with a general classic restoration company who don't specialise in Datsuns. I've seen all types of cars in their shop while my car was there (which was pretty cool), Aston Martin, Jag, Healey, Crystler, Ford, Austin 7, Opel GT, Ferrari, Lotus, you name it. They had a never ending stream of customers and 4 month wait time just to get the car in. They're the guys who did the welding and body work to resurrect my 1st car from the grave as it were. You can see what they did in my gallery. It's at the final prep stage I'm being let down by the UK market, but if I started again I'd start with an all-in-one specialist because I wouldn't have to pay for the learning curve. That's the value a specialist brings, in my opinion.
 
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