Ok engine builders of Great Britain you’re on!

I would suggest that 228 was the brut figure......!

Skiddells' 2.8 inj engine - 255
my 3.1 - 260/270
full race blown 3.1 - 310
rallye 2.9s - 270

Problem is now that no-one ever sees LRD so to test it's prowess would be difficult !

Did their driveshaft problem ever get solved ?:rolleyes:

And where are some piccies of your better half and child ?
 
275-ish bhp from a 2.8 ? With respect, I don't believe it. yes, I'm sure the print-out exists but......;)
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Interesting, considering my engine will be almost identical spec except for a better manifold and system, and I don't expect any more than 230 to 240bhp at the flywheel.
 
This is all kind of academic as the chances of a 2007 shoot out is unlikely, and there clearly was a dyno print out showing 228 RWHP, however we can look at the historical data at the black dyno near Wellingboro
If we use the generally accepted laws of physics to back calculate we can get an idea of what ET (elapsed time) 228 RWHP could equate to in the real world.
For arguments sake lets assume that the car plus driver weighed around 2600 Lbs, where do I get that from well...
The original 240Z would have weighed around 2480 Lbs inc driver (190 Lbs) so 2600Lbs allows a fair margin (120Lbs) for the add ons such as the wing, flairs, paint and bigger wheels etc

According to Newtons 2nd law, force = mass x acceleration so a variation of this is

HP = Weight/(ET/5.825)³

Using the above formula (recognised as an acceptable baseline for 1/4 mile racing)
Then 228 RWHP with a 2600 LB car (car plus driver) would be capable of ........an almost dead 13 seconds

What happens if we are miles out on the weight calculation
well lets see what happens if we increase the weight of the car to 2700 Lbs
228 RWHP still equates to 13.27.....a far cry from 13.78.......

In order to pull 13.78 with 228 RWHP then the car would have to weigh a mighty 2968 Lbs or 1346 kilos...... a whopping 490 Lbs more than the original 240Z or almost the weight of an R33 Skyline.......all of the above is somewhat rudimentary and does not factor in the fact that the car could have been wheelspinning all the way up the track however this is unlikely as the driver was (and is) very experianced and as far as I am aware was trying very very hard indeed

However if we use 228 at the flywheel (some 190 at the wheels assuming 18% losses) the the numbers add up and the 2600 Lb car can now comfortable do 13.78.......I kid you not.
 
Yes the driver was trying very very hard.

Yes the driver had with him spare drive shafts.(because it broke them)

Yes the driver also had a spare gearbox. (because it killed them)

Yes the Driver also carried a spare diff (because it eat them up)

Yes the car had 228 at the wheels Malcum Yule had the Dyno Report from the rolling road in Bury.

And Yes it was 11 years ago

And Yes the car won Ultimate Fast Car 2151cc - 3150cc class @ the Pod 1996 and 1997 and the Bastards had to change the Rules so i could not win 1998 the event was run over 2 days and open to any Make & Model of car

Just like the Jap show today but bigger !!!!!
 
Woah,

Dave mate, no one is knocking what you or Mark achieved back then, least of all me, and by the way things are going what will be achieved with the RB project.......
There's a favourite phrase of mine "standing on the shoulders of giants" referring to the part played by those that have gone before us. And I for one am always in full admiration and respect of what was achieved. So please dont think this is a "lets knock Dave or Mark"

What we are discussing is the validity of the 228 RWHP dyno sheet, not whether it existed or not and all I wanted to do is present the physics side of things.
 
and by that calc, I should be able to do an 11.96!

330hp at the hubs ~ 300 at the wheels..

lets see for 2007 then...
 
SKiddell said:
Woah,

Dave mate, no one is knocking what you or Mark achieved back then, least of all me, and by the way things are going what will be achieved with the RB project.......
There's a favourite phrase of mine "standing on the shoulders of giants" referring to the part played by those that have gone before us. And I for one am always in full admiration and respect of what was achieved. So please dont think this is a "lets knock Dave or Mark"

What we are discussing is the validity of the 228 RWHP dyno sheet, not whether it existed or not and all I wanted to do is present the physics side of things.
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Did not take it that way "me old mucker" we did not spend a lot of money on that engine what mark wanted to point out is that you can build yourself a quick car on a budget with stock engine parts.
 
260Z TT said:
........Transmission losses on a Z are around the 40 to 50 bhp mark you will find if you speak to anyone in the know........
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SKiddell said:
.......assuming 18% losses.....
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:conf2:

I've got a dyno print-out showing 220 bhp from my green Z, running on a bored 2.4, 1 3/43 SUs, an MSA header and exhaust and a rallye cam. I ought to frame it 'cos it's true....:rolleyes: !

Maybe LRD was much lighter than another Z......? The driver certainly was...........then :D !
 
Sean.... 18% roughly equates to around 40 HP loss on a 225 HP engine:conf2: flywheel that is.

If your going the other way....RWHP to flywheel work on 22% and you wont be far off.

Losses are generally measured in % rather than a fixed figure with the greatest loss down to tyres
 
Mr Ex, we have to meet up - I love your friendly bedside manner - so refreshing :bow: ! Do you 'rouge, blanc, rosé, champagne, apéritif, digestif or bière' it ?
 
comparing dyno or rolling road figures is a waste of time unless the engines/cars are run on the same dyno/rolling road by the same operator.
trying to work out HP by 1/4 mile times and comparing would again mean that the cars hed to be driven by the same driver at the same strip under the same condition to achieve comparable results. The cars would also have to have the same gearing, tyres etc.
I am not sure where this thread is going now but it seems to be developing back into a good old "my engine produces this hp and yours doesnt"
 
Ben said:
comparing dyno or rolling road figures is a waste of time unless the engines/cars are run on the same dyno/rolling road by the same operator.
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couldnt agree more, Ive only been saying that for 2 years:rolleyes:


Ben said:
trying to work out HP by 1/4 mile times and comparing would again mean that the cars hed to be driven by the same driver at the same strip under the same condition to achieve comparable results
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Sorry disagree there Ben, the physics gives you the best "possible" time ie "this is the best you can hope to achieve" with the horse power available for that weight of car.... or flipping it around allows you to unequivocally say I have just run this time (ET) and my car is this weight therefore I have at least this much power....sure aerodynamics play a part but at the speed we achieve (sub 120mph), not by much..... using physics removes variables such as drivers, weather etc and is perfect for comparative excersises....remember we are talking "ideal world" here. Add a driver in and the ET (elapsed time) increases....but not by much, change driver and as long as they are reasonabley competant, the time will hardly change
Do the maths, its amazing how accurate it is.....still drag racers have been using maths for years in order to predict their times....maybe their all wrong ehh:rolleyes:


PS remember how accurate it predicted your time/HP Ben ;)

Still with only 80+ runs under my belt what the Fook do I know

Ben said:
"my engine produces this hp and yours doesnt"
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No Ben you miss the point.....the debate is that 228 RWHP has never been seen by any car below normally aspirated 3 litre, irespective of the technology used however 228 flywheel is not unusual and 228 flywheel is enough to run a 13.78 what is what happened.


240z said:
and by that calc, I should be able to do an 11.96!
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yes you should, go onto any of the web based calculators and try it..........why do you think we all want you to come along more often.
 
ben240z said:
........seems to be developing back into a good old "my engine produces this hp and yours doesnt"
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That's because Guus hasn't replied to my question a few days back !

Whatever happened to the drag-strip / hill-climb challenge then.....?;)
 
So with all the upgrades on offer over the last 10 years & 10 years of Z Club drag racing LRD 621L has been beat by. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


2 L6 NA Cars in 10 years and 1 of them by 1000 second


So whats been close ?

Super Charged 240z L6 running 13.871
SuperCharged 350z running 13.848
300zx Twin Turbo running 13.864
Rover V8 powered 240z running 13.929

If SO many Z owners are hitting the 228 flywheel mark then where the F**k are they ??? do not tell me that over the last 10 years none of them have run up a strip as there are 26 240z & 260z behind me in the hall of fame all must be standard car running standard engines ?.
 
Whilst 228 HP will get you in the ball park and in theory is "enough" it still requires skill to use that 228 HP and that skill is only aquired with time.

Firstly, hardly any people (240z NA) turn up, if they do its only once in a while so never get to learn to launch, change gear etc properly or they have a go think they have mastered it and never come back

Dont forget there are also people out there that arnt far off...look at say Adrian Rawlins running 14.3 (green 240)....put some good tyres on, some experiance and the right day with a well prepped track and hey presto
Or Kevin Irons running 13.9 (Samuri), once again some good tyres the right day/prepped track and a bit of experiance could see the mid 13's

Secondly how many people really rag the sh*t out of their cars EG hang onto 3rd gear up to 7000 rpm in order to save a gear change.....or drop thier tyre pressure to half of the normal running pressure in order to shave a few hundreths off, very very few almost non as they dont want to and who can blame them.

As time goes by the likelyhood is that fewer and fewer will venture out.

In the end how many people with genuine 200+ HP cars exist or care about the hall of fame...unfortunately the answer to both is "very few"

Once again I reiterate that this is NOT a pissing competition, I am mearly defending that fact that you can accurately mathematically predict how fast a car can run a 1/4 mile, given that you know the HP and weight of the car, likewise you can accurately tell how much HP a car produces if you know either the ET or the terminal speed and the weight of the car (the terminal speed is much more consistant and yields better results)

Thats why they call it the "black Dyno"
 
:D:D actually I was lucky if I had 188 !!!

.........but a big fat 0bhp at present, so you'll just have to wait a little while:)
 
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