James Morris' Samuri 240Z £60K

Another quick flip then, JD owned this until fairly recently.. Been at Fourways a couple of times over the last few months.
 
I've just read the 'description' and I'm surprised it has standard front brakes. I saw the car at Mallory Park during the Tour Britainnia in 2007 and also at out ZCLUB track day at Goodwood about 10 years ago. Lovely car but a recreation.
 
JK240 said:
There's a massive difference between a recreation and a ringer Sean...!!
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Explain it to the thickie here then please.:thumbs:

I see it thus :

the real thing

and then copies, recreations, replicas, tributes, reshells and if sold as the real thing then they're ringers.

I'm probably too simple.:unsure:
 
SeanDezart said:
I see it thus :

the real thing

and then copies, recreations, replicas, tributes, reshells and if sold as the real thing then they're ringers.

I'm probably too simple.:unsure:
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The key point is the intent.

With 'replicas', 'tributes' and 'lookalikes', there is not usually any intent to deceive. Nobody would mistake a laser printed poster of van Gogh's sunflowers as The Real Thing.

Re-shells and rebuilds based on original parts and/or identities (which in itself includes a whole spectrum of possibilities...) are not always done to deceive, but sometimes are. Key point here - apart from intent - is the somewhat nebulous idea of 'continuous history'. Is 'Big Sam' a "ringer"? Clearly not, but it has been re-shelled and the 'Big Sam' identity encompasses at least three cars combined in one story. It's a moveable feast.

I think the currently accepted meaning of the term "ringer" in the automotive context is something that was created to maliciously deceive or defraud. Cut-and-shuts, 'clean' identities put on to stolen or written-off cars, that kind of thing.

I would not call the James Morris 'Super Samuri' a "ringer", but clearly its specification has changed rather drastically over the years. You could say that it's has its Samuri-ness turned up to 11 when it used to be at 5 on the dial. In cases like this it's often the misinformed comments of others (see auction descriptions for examples) which muddy the waters.

I saw the James Morris Super Samuri at one of the Race Retro auctions years ago. There was a hand-written note on the dashboard from one S. Anderson esquire which promised it was 'The Real Thing'. "Good enough for jazz...", as they say...
 
"It was then fully restored and upgraded to Super Samuri Specification by Kevin Bristow the well known rally ace and Z specialist."

Why then are Kevin Irons' built cars not listed as Samuris ?

And the rear arches (real abomination) look nothing like those specified by Spike !
 
Sean you make me chuckle when you say you are a thickie and and simple
And then come out with
Why then are Kevin Irons' built cars not listed as Samuris ?
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The following adapted rhyme springs to mind
"Round and round the garden
Like a teddy bear
One step
Two steps
Let me see who I can tickle under there"
 
Surely the bottom line here is if Mr Anderson still considers it a Samuri. He is the man who mandates if a car is a Sam, like it or not. So really any perspective buyer should confirm its acceptability with him.

He may say Yes or he may say This is not the car that I recognise.
 
http://www.samuri.eu/index_files/Page1566.htm (Can't see Kevin's cars....) :confused:

Samuri specs are listed by the man himself in his book.

"This was all done under the supervision of Spike Anderson (proprietor of Samuri Conversions) to ensure a totally period correct Samuri spec car." When ?

So anyone can build a 'Samuri' AND sell it as such...,

Is this a real Samuri built by Spike or a car 'authorised' by him later and built by someone else.

Which has a higher value if any of the two 'versions' above ?

I'm too simple and call a spade a spade !:eek:
 
MikeB said:
Surely the bottom line here is if Mr Anderson still considers it a Samuri. He is the man who mandates if a car is a Sam, like it or not. So really any perspective buyer should confirm its acceptability with him.

He may say Yes or he may say This is not the car that I recognise.
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I don't wish it soon but it is inevitable - he won't live forever - what happens if when he can't vindicate cars, a number crawl out of the woodwork in the 'correct' livery ?

I remember someone prominent on this forum mentioning cans and worms regarding LHD to RHD conversions later when values rise and serious investors are attracted.

I think that day is here and (almost inevitably) began in the UK with their most famous after-market tuner.

Next will be very nice road cars sold as original UK market versions.
 
Has any one read a book called "You've got to be lucky" as that is meant to be 100% gospel,well IMHO that never told the whole tale either
 
SeanDezart said:
I don't wish it soon but it is inevitable - he won't live forever - what happens if when he can't vindicate cars, a number crawl out of the woodwork in the 'correct' livery ?
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'Vindicate', LOL.

I think 'authenticate' might be the better choice of synonym.

SeanDezart said:
I remember someone prominent on this forum mentioning cans and worms regarding LHD to RHD conversions later when values rise and serious investors are attracted.
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Proceed too far down that road and you might find you're in need of a good lawyer....;)
 
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