Help Charging issue

[andrew muir]

Plea of help.
I am in Austria and my charging system is playing up, what do you suggest?
What should I check , fuseable links, diode etc, this is an uprated 60amp alternator with internal regulation, at the moment it seems it is running off the battery.

Andrew Muir

 

[monza]

Had a similar problem last week in my 280zx - got stranded in local town and had to borrow a battery to get home !...turned out to be a wire loose inside alternator....so a cheap fix on that occasion

my advice is to get a multimeter ( go to a local garage ? ) and check voltage at battery across rev range.
if it stays around 12v then you are probably running off battery which means no charging taking place, if you have any signs of increased voltage ( which suggests charging is taking place ) then worn alternator parts.....

a) check battery connections are firm and clean, and earth strap is good, etc.
b) check battery connection on back of alternator is firm clean.
c) depending on alternator type, 1 or 2 connections into back of it need 12v live into alternator to 'excite' it into charging ( these are usually provided by earthing the idiot lights on the dash into the alternator and hence why said lights go out when alternator starts to work - are your idiot lights coming on before starting - the 280zx has a relay for one set of idiot lights and the relay might stick..), do your idiot lights go out when engine running.... multimeter those / check good clean connections
d) check fuseable links but more than likely an alternator fault
e) take alternator apart - very simple job with basic tools and look for obvious faults ( this is how I spotted my broken wire )
f) may be just worn brushes which you might be able to stretch attached cables a little bit so brush comes out a tad further -might get you another 500 miles before problem re-occurs.

Worst case is a broken regulator which will require a new part from somewhere...

As a plan b, with a fully charged known good battery and only ignition working, you may be able to drive 20-50 miles before it goes flat.....lights, heater fan are major current draws so turn everything off - even if that means pulling fuses.

Good luck tiger....

Ash

 

[status]

Best thing to do is call the breakdown out and let them do the donkey work then when they find the problem you might get the bit if needed sent by express from someone on here,I would put a bet on yer battery,won't tell you to suck eggs cos that ain't wot you want hear,I have some 240/260 bits if you need em quick,text or phone 07957881997

 

[andrew muir]

Thanks for replys
I bought a multimeter and tested it as an intermitant fault as I have messed around with connections etc, and it now is working ok but not confident etc. It is a 260z with internal regulated internally. So this may be a relay problem as mentioned, but which relay, as when it stsrted to work again I sort of did here a click etc below dash, I did not think it significant at the time. The alternator is four years old so should not be worn. The idiot ligts do go out though.

Many thanks.

 

[andrew muir]

I don,t think it is the battery as that is ok at 12.5 volts steady and runs lights etc ok.

 

[morbias]

If your car has an internally regulated alternator then the wiring must have been modified to remove the old external regulator, so the plug that the external regulator would have plugged into should have the required wires added to allow the internally regulated alternator to charge, maybe it's worth checking to see they are still connected properly.

 

[STEVE BURNS]

give Sean a pm or phone call as he is a lot nearer and could probably give a contact in Austria
his phone number is in his signature
but also agree with Status in calling out break down service out as that is what you pay your dosh for

 

[SKiddell]

There is no "relay" with an internally regulated alternator, its all solid state, 12.5 volts is too low for a charging alternator, it should be up around 13.8+ volts++An easy test is turn your headlights on then rev the engine, there should be a distinctive change in brightness when the revs climb above 1500 rpm or so

 

[andrew muir]

Right then.
Firstly, thanks to all who replied especially Rob Gaskin whose texts were greatly appreciated. Its not fun getting into trouble over 1000miles from home!!

Thought I would give a bit of a write up on my trip, I put a lot into the prep of the car before I set off, but I guess I didn't expect to see 40degrees in the shade temps!!

Problems I ran into were keeping cool when the temp in the sun was over 57degrees which meant I had to drive fast, not less than a genuine 90mph and more often 100mph plus!

I had problems when the temp got really hot after a traffic jam etc, the engine would not want to rev past 4000revs, I suspect this was due to the coil overheating, or it could have been the Pertonix unit overheating as it felt like an ignition problem. The problem went away after 10mins of hi speed to lower underbonnet temps etc.
I should stress that the car never stopped or broke down at any time!!

The other main issue was that suddenly the alternator would not have any output, without the voltage guage I would have surely brokedown, The final solution after buying a muiltimeter was to strip down the alternator and test, I could not find any real fault but suspect the positive terminal may have been loose as it fell into casing while I was dismantling the unit. It could also have been sticking brushes?
After reinstalling, the alternator has been working fine and we arrived safely home the other night.

Austria is a beautiful country, the temps were unusually hot there, and for over a week it was 35degrees plus. They also have very cheap petrol about 90pence a litre cheapest in Europe I believe. And for those speed freaks with hi-comp engines 100-102 octane fuel is at almost every forecourt. The beer is great and combined with all that Schnitzel,have gained a few pounds.

All in all the familly had a great time and the car was solid, but taking on a journey of over 2,400miles in two weeks in that heat, ain't no walk in the park.

 

[toopy]

How on earth did you manage to get everything you needed for a two week holiday, as well as the tools and spares you took,
into the back of the car, without half of it spilling on top of the kids everytime you hit the brakes?!

Went to Austria about 6yrs ago now, went in the summer, so no snow etc, but it certainly wasnt anywhere near
as hot as you experienced... think i would of melted!
Scenery is absolutely stunning though, spent most of the trip in silence just gauwping at the beauty of it all

 

[andrew muir]

You should know all about the advantages of a 2+2!!
Had to be economocal with the spares, Onlytook set of hoses, fan belt, distributor cap spark plugs and a few small items,bolts, ties etc and with sockets and spanners it all fitted into a 45cm x20cm tool bag. The car was prepared and all items were checked before hand. Teeshirts and shorts don't take up much space!!
Yes the scenery is stunning, and the weather was increadibly hot, being half Austrian I have been there many times but 40degrees is the hottest I have experienced and with no air con we nearly did all melt.
Car used a bit of oil about 1L/1000miles due to high speed driving and the temps probably.

How on earth did you manage to get everything you needed for a two week holiday, as well as the tools and spares you took,
into the back of the car, without half of it spilling on top of the kids everytime you hit the brakes?!

Went to Austria about 6yrs ago now, went in the summer, so no snow etc, but it certainly wasnt anywhere near
as hot as you experienced... think i would of melted!
Scenery is absolutely stunning though, spent most of the trip in silence just gauwping at the beauty of it all

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Andrew, when your car was hot were the fans running? When on trackdays I used to open my bonnet on to the safety latch position. Later to avoid issues with officials I removed the inspection hatches.

Well done for taking your Z on such a tour and I think you were unfortunate with the ambient temp. and your charging issues. Any pics of your car in the mountains?h

 

[SeanDezart]

Glad you made it home ok....just for info, London is the same distance from Innsbruck (mountains) as me : +750miles.

A Z should drive perfectly at normal speeds in those ambient temperatures....with the right equipment ie 1 or 2 electric fans (with or without a standard fan) controlled by a thermostat that you adjust to come on earlier and a decent rad. 280Z grills help or as Rob suggested, simply drive around with the bonnet open on it's latch - no risk which would allow air to better circulate underneath and avoid any heat interference with the electrics.....?

 

[andrew muir]

The car wasn't overheating, just me!!
The twin 10" alloy rad setup coped well, at 70mph no fans were on at all, at 90-100mph the first fan would come on occasionally, and in a large traffic jam the second fan would come on. So I think I got my setup about perfect, temp was mostly below centre only occasionally did it nudge above halfway.

The problem was with no air con it was very hot inside the car, it was 40 in shade after all!

 

[andrew muir]

Hi Rob here are a couple of pics
Didn't take too many pics of the car as the holiday was mostly spent visiting friends and relatives.
The fist pic is Hallstadt, 2nd is James near top of Krippenstein 2100 with Dachstein galcier in background, 3rd is zed at foot of Krippenstein, mountain furthest away.
4th is a Zed stop for Strawberries in Bavaria.

Well done for taking your Z on such a tour and I think you were unfortunate with the ambient temp. and your charging issues. Any pics of your car in the mountains?h[/QUOTE]

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Lovely pics and your car looks fantastic. I see you have the bonnet 'on the latch' too.

Thanks.

 

[andrew muir]

I don't believe it this charging issue has returned!!
It is again intermittent, and is random,
I had the alternator back out cleaned and cannot find an issue, its a newer Hitachi 60amp internally regulated unit about 3 years old.

I thought the issue might be with the adapter plug with the diode in it, but all terminals measure 12.4 v except one side of the diode which is about 11.6v but I think that is correct??
When it is working I am getting about 14.2v regardless of revs.

Any ideas?? anyone

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Status has one in Classifieds. He is at Silverstone, you are at Donington, I'm at both.

Can I help?

 

[andrew muir]

Thanks Rob
Its just so strange it should be ok for over 2000 miles then return, I will stick with the internally regulated type as I gave my external regulator away.
Theer are plenty cheap replacements out ther some as cheap as 65quid Hitachi ones seem to come in around 90quid.

I just want to check I am not jumping to conclusions?