Drag racing rules and classing

[SeanDezart]

I have looked back in the winter 05/06 magazine and studied the classifications.

All refer to increased power, the distinction being, keeping the original engine configuration. OK, but drag-racing is all about power to weight ratios - yes ? And reaction times of course !

So, in order to go faster, one must increase the power with the risk of going up a class or...............decrease the weight ! Shouldn't this last factor also be considered as a reason for moving up a class ?

Say, any car weighing 5% less than it's intended weight could have a time penalty or move up a class ?

Surely lightened and strupped-out cars should be classed differently than those running as standard ? Just as slicks make the difference over ordinary radials !

 

[Russ]

How much lightening would it take to get the equivalent of a 100 shot of NOS though?

 

[SeanDezart]

But there Russ, you open another can of worms - should S30 2 seaters with well over 200 bhp compete in the same class as std 2+2s and std 2 seaters ?

Where is the motivation for anyone with anything near a std car to compete ?

I sense that a fairer class system needs to be discussed and if approved - implemented !

 

[johnymd]

What about driver weight? You saying if I go on a diet, I go up a class? If I put on loads of weight I could even win a class.................just remembered.............I need to get my car back together first!!!!!!!!!

 

[zedhead260]

Where is the motivation for anyone with anything near a std car to compete ?

The man that walked off with the most points after round 1 drives a stock 240Z with the exception of a Janspeed manifold and s/s exhaust.

 

[Russ]

How many classes shall we have then Sean, our current 7 is pretty comprehensive I think, would you advocate 20?

 

[johnymd]

We could each have our own class! We can then all be winners.

 

[Russ]

Can we start a "Car with no engine" class, that way I can compete. You are allowed two mates to push it whilst you steer. Any volunteers?

 

[SeanDezart]

Ooh lay off guys ! 7 classes are for more than just the S30s ! And I'm not talking about the most ppints, I'm talking about fastest in each class ! In Drag racing, you get points for turning up to watch, in a Z or not !

 

[Russ]

I'm not sure how many 'regular' competitors we have though, so although some classes are reasonably busy others may not be. You'd probably end up with classes with just one or two competitors if it was further broken down.

Now you're not just trying to get a class specifically for your Z are you? I thought a stroker was the way to go anyway?

 

[zedhead260]

What are you suggesting then Sean ?

 

[SKiddell]

Blimey Sean how many class's do you want and when do you stop or do we end up with a class for every member eg

A bare metal respray (red), half full ashtray (B&H), 3 crisp packets (cheese and onion), wooden gear knob a driver named frank and an electric fuel pump (Facet).

The whole concern around the challenge was that we needed more attendance (you know, people actually turning up) so the points system was re-focused towards rewarding consistant attendance and quick reaction times (ie people stuff) rather than the car which became somewhat secondary (ALL OF WHICH WAS CLEARLY EXPLAINED IN THE MAG)

As Rob said the Guy leading the challenge drives a stock car apart from a very modest engine upgrade, which means that things are working -- if it aint broke and all that

 

[pmac]

Drag racing rules and classing
I have looked back in the winter 05/06 magazine and studied the classifications.

I have to say in all honesty Sean that I am deeply dismayed by your post and the tone of it.
You simply have no idea of the time and effort that MrF, Zedhead 260, Skiddell and myself put in to trying to devise a simpler and more competitive format to the drag challenge.
You also seem to totally ignore the fact that MrF and Rob currently give up hours of their own free time to calculate the results and tables. Proposing more classes just adds to that work.
One of our main objectives was to encourage relatively unmodified cars to take part, and its working as has been pointed out.The current leader is a novice in a low power car!!
Just exactly what current experience to you have of taking part in any drag racing/RWYB days. Do you have any understanding of the difficulties that we as a club face in trying to make this series work at "public test days" when "racing" as such is banned.
Are you proposing to relocate to England and take over running the series?? Im sure Mr F would like a break from organizing. It would allow him to get on with enjoying himself instead of feeling obligated to devote most of the day meeting and advising others.
Of course the set of rules we have strived to devise will not be perfect, but for goodness sake there has only been one round so far. Give it all a chance to be tested for a season before you launch in to us with ill informed comments, criticism and "suggestions".
You can rest assured that we will be revueing it all at the end of the season to see how it can be improved. And no doubt taking notes from those who have taken part.

And finally... If ya dont like the rules ... cos you think they dont favour you then dont take part.

 

[status]

sean baby,your talking bollocks again aint you dear

 

[SeanDezart]

Oh dear oh dear !

I'll state for the record that I think the points system is a great idea and of course, any competetion should be reviewed at the end of the season, I'm sure the years' experience will throw up some improvements to make but at least it's in place and providing 'motorsport' in these difficult days ! Ok guys, are you soothed now ?

I wasn't criticising the points system, Russ brought that up. My comments were on the speed ratings and more specifically on the Hall of Fame !

So lets get back to the subject please :

Do you still consider it fair to consider a standard 2+2 S30 to be in the same league as a 250+ bhp 2 seater S30 ?

And my original point - shouldn't lightening the original cars' structure be considered as a performance enhancement ? And if so, after what weight loss should penalties be incurred or a car moved up a class (where actually no reasonable class exists) ?

The questions and more opinions were and are intended to form the basis of an intelligent discussion / debate, not to infer criticism so take ten deep breaths and calm down please.

And finally... If ya dont like the rules ... cos you think they dont favour you then dont take part

That's the good old fashioned club spirit mate - keep that one up ! It aint 'cos I don't think the rules'll favour me, it's because I don't think the rules'll favour the others !

Not much else of interest happening on here at the moment

Just got interesting didn't it ! Too easy !

 

[zedhead260]

Do you still consider it fair to consider a standard 2+2 S30 to be in the same league as a 250+ bhp 2 seater S30 ?

The league table is the Top 10 fastest - under the rules I don't see any reason why a 2+2 can't make it into the top 10 with the correct tuning / lightening.
With regard to the "points in class" for S30, then the faster cars will walk off with more points. But the bulk of the Drag Challenge points are made up from REACTION TIME & ATTENDENCE which we expect to level the playing field. I'll say it again - after round 1 a fairly stock car was awarded with the most points and is in first position over all.

And my original point - shouldn't lightening the original cars' structure be considered as a performance enhancement ? And if so, after what weight loss should penalties be incurred or a car moved up a class (where actually no reasonable class exists) ?

Yes of course its a performance enhancement, but the rules state "No distinction is being made regarding modified or un-modified as long as the original series engine, normally aspirated, remains the core of the project". To create a new class for lightened cars would effectively increase the classes to a total number of 14, which is exactly what we were trying to avoid.
And how do you expect we police weight ? bring scales with us and weigh each car before a run ? Not enough hours in the day (or strength in my back).

It aint 'cos I don't think the rules'll favour me, it's because I don't think the rules'll favour the others !

I'll state for the record that I think the points system is a great idea

What are you talking about Sean ???

I wasn't criticising the points system...................... My comments were on the speed ratings and more specifically on the Hall of Fame !

(I'm sure this thread has "Drag Racing Rules" written somewhere)

So you would like to go through the archive and create a list of cars with the slowest times ??? Point ?

The idea behind the Hall of Fame was to create a historic list of the fast cars. We capped it at 14.999 seconds to give newcomers a goal to achieve. Hardley worth having a list of achievers if you don't have to achieve much to get in eh ??

The Drag Challenge Rules were revised to reduce the number of classes to corresponde with the type of entries we get, but also to enable all cars and classes to compete accross the board resulting in an over all champ.
Skiddell & I between us spent hour upon hour divising graphs and mathamatical calculations to bring some kind of justifiable science to the table, but it just made things far too complicated and didn't really work anyway. The only real way of doing it was do devise a simple but effective points system - we will only know how well it works at the end of the season, but so far so good.

The Top 10's were then introduced to reflect the new Drag Challenge classes. If the classes were to change in the future; new Top 10 tables could be drawn up fairly easily with the archive information we now have.

It would be fantastic to have an N/A modified, N/A un-modified, Turbo modified and Turbo un-modified for every model and at least 10 people turning up in each class every round, but it ain't ever gonna happen; so we have had to rationalise the classes to reflect those the DO attend.

 

[Russ]

I think weighing cars is too impractical to be included. Ok a 160bhp 2+2 isn't going to win against a 250bhp 240, but it IS a drag race, how fair do you want it?

Are you suggesting that we have classes sub divided into 'competitive' and 'completely uncompetitive but I still wish to win'? If you have an S30 and wish to win then don't buy a 2+2 and forget to tune it.

If everyone in the club raced then this would be more feasible, maybe one for the future?

 

[chunk]

And there is me thnking its a club based event for all Z cars and in the name of fun!

I took my totally stock Z32 NA auto to round 1 and ran against Pmac's trick Z32 NA manual, I knew i wasnt gonna beat him, but hey, Im only 1 point behind him in the overall standings so far!!

Doesnt matter if you have a 16 second 240 or a 10 second Z32TT, Just turn up, support the club and have a damb good laugh doing it!

Rich

 

[SeanDezart]

The league table is the Top 10 fastest - under the rules I don't see any reason why a 2+2 can't make it into the top 10 with the correct tuning / lightening.
Yes of course its a performance enhancement, but the rules state "No distinction is being made regarding modified or un-modified as long as the original series engine, normally aspirated, remains the core of the project". To create a new class for lightened cars would effectively increase the classes to a total number of 14, which is exactly what we were trying to avoid.

And so I'm saying that perhaps the rules need to be looked at soon ! And why, is one class is revised, it automatically means that all classes must be revised ?

And how do you expect we police weight ? bring scales with us and weigh each car before a run ? Not enough hours in the day (or strength in my back).

Why can't owners present a weighing slip for their cars before each run ? Why the emphasis on the orgainisers to 'police' it ? Self-responsibility !!!

What are you talking about Sean ???

I'm saying that me and my car would be a lot faster than most and it wouldn't be fair to most runners - sure they'll win more points than me (attendance/reaction times etc) but I still feel that for the hall of fame, the S30 class should be split more fairly !

The Drag Challenge Rules were revised to reduce the number of classes to corresponde with the type of entries we get, but also to enable all cars and classes to compete accross the board resulting in an over all champ.
Skiddell & I between us spent hour upon hour divising graphs and mathamatical calculations to bring some kind of justifiable science to the table, but it just made things far too complicated and didn't really work anyway. The only real way of doing it was do devise a simple but effective points system - we will only know how well it works at the end of the season, but so far so good.
It would be fantastic to have an N/A modified, N/A un-modified, Turbo modified and Turbo un-modified for every model and at least 10 people turning up in each class every round, but it ain't ever gonna happen; so we have had to rationalise the classes to reflect those the DO attend.

I repeat, I think the points system so far is a good one BUT I'm talking about the hall of fame which will gradually push out older, fast cars as the current racers get lighter or more power ! Shame not to see the quickest std 260Z or 240Z but reassuring that

The Top 10's were then introduced to reflect the new Drag Challenge classes. If the classes were to change in the future; new Top 10 tables could be drawn up fairly easily with the archive information we now have.

 

[Mr.F]

The simple point is that in the real world very few, if any, standard cars actually come to a drag race meeting to run on the track. We know, for example, a stock 240Z can run to 15.8 seconds on the quarter so the "stock" Hall of Fame would probably read 15.89, 15.88.15.87, 15.86 etc. No interest, no achievement, nothing new. In a modified all of Fame we can compare the efficiency of a variety of modifications and tuning approaches.
In an ideal world, we would organise "heads up" Z Club drag racing with handicaps based on predicted times. The old ET class system in drag racing had classes based on brackets of times and staggered lights at the start to reflect the driver's predicted times. In theory everyone would cross the line together; in reality the other factors involved in putting a car down a drag strip generated a winner. Unfortunately a system like that places participants in the MSA regulated world of competition where we would all need a licence, race car safety prep and full driver safety equipment. That would cut the minimal participation down to a handfull!
Just remember there is no failure in a drag race, just a winner and a runner-up...