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All good things must come to an end
- Thread starter johnymd
- Start date
Sorry to hear that John. Yep that engine has been (and still may be) fantastic.
Keep us posted please.
Keep us posted please.
SacCyclone
Club Member
Sorry to her that John, she sounds like she took good care of you for many years though. Just like most any girl, their not happy unless you spending money on them. LOL
johnymd
Club Member
Thanks.
Maybe she got the hump that I haven't spent any money on her for the last 5 years!!
So, what happened?
We had the car running really well with no boost control and just letting the physics of the engine govern the boost. The waistgate springs are set at around .7bar but even fully open the boost rises to 1bar. Which has been fine for the last 5 years. Sometimes it drifts a little higher and sometime it spikes to 1.3bar. Are ceramic turbo's are known to not like going that much over 1bar but there's no hard and fast rule.
Last night we connected a boost valve and turned it on in the ECU and set it to try and control at .5bar. I went out for a drive and found the car to be no different with it still boosting to 1bar. When I got back we went through the logs and noticed that turbo actuator control wasn't turned on so we turned that on along with learning control to achieve target boost across the rev range. Ian set the targets to 1bar making the assumption that it had and could control to that. I knew it had to open early in order to stop it passing 1bar but it didn't occur to me at the time. I went out for another drive and it started making boost a lot sooner and rapidly went past 1bar and I backed off before it went much further. I carried on driving for a bit, keeping the boost to just over 1bar to try and get some good logging info but it peaked again a little higher and there was a big bang accompanied by lots of metallic noises and that was the end of that. Got the car back to the workshop and it now smokes quite a bit and the rear turbo it rattling around a fair bit. Engine sounds like its still running on all 6 so it may not be the end of the world. As Richie says, I've plenty of others to drive around.
Maybe she got the hump that I haven't spent any money on her for the last 5 years!!
So, what happened?
We had the car running really well with no boost control and just letting the physics of the engine govern the boost. The waistgate springs are set at around .7bar but even fully open the boost rises to 1bar. Which has been fine for the last 5 years. Sometimes it drifts a little higher and sometime it spikes to 1.3bar. Are ceramic turbo's are known to not like going that much over 1bar but there's no hard and fast rule.
Last night we connected a boost valve and turned it on in the ECU and set it to try and control at .5bar. I went out for a drive and found the car to be no different with it still boosting to 1bar. When I got back we went through the logs and noticed that turbo actuator control wasn't turned on so we turned that on along with learning control to achieve target boost across the rev range. Ian set the targets to 1bar making the assumption that it had and could control to that. I knew it had to open early in order to stop it passing 1bar but it didn't occur to me at the time. I went out for another drive and it started making boost a lot sooner and rapidly went past 1bar and I backed off before it went much further. I carried on driving for a bit, keeping the boost to just over 1bar to try and get some good logging info but it peaked again a little higher and there was a big bang accompanied by lots of metallic noises and that was the end of that. Got the car back to the workshop and it now smokes quite a bit and the rear turbo it rattling around a fair bit. Engine sounds like its still running on all 6 so it may not be the end of the world. As Richie says, I've plenty of others to drive around.
Your personality John encourages the philosophy that 'enough is never enough' which is how everything in life gets progressed and improved. 'Nothing ventured - nothing gained' as they say.
I'm far more cautious so my immediate reaction was 'why didn't he leave it alone' but of course that wouldn't give you any satisfaction at all.
It takes all sorts of people to create a balance and I have nothing but admiration for your achievements with that car. Lets hope it's not too bad and you get it back running strongly again before Silverstone.
You now have a better idea of where the limits are.
Good Luck.
I'm far more cautious so my immediate reaction was 'why didn't he leave it alone' but of course that wouldn't give you any satisfaction at all.
It takes all sorts of people to create a balance and I have nothing but admiration for your achievements with that car. Lets hope it's not too bad and you get it back running strongly again before Silverstone.
You now have a better idea of where the limits are.
Good Luck.
richiep
Club Member
Ditto. Here's hoping the carnage is isolated to the offending turbo.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Sorry to hear that. Surely is it is duffed then it'll be cheaper to just buy another - no ?
racer
Club Member
johnymd
Club Member
It's not using a lot of fuel just sitting in the workshop Graham.
I am resisting the upgrade route so have bought a pair of replacement turbo's for a couple of hundred quid and I'm now relatively confident that its just the rear turbo as it still revs nicely and sounds healthy. The replacements should get here Monday so I'll know by Monday night if all is well.
When I did the conversion the complete donor car cost me £400 and I will now struggle to get a good replacement for that. They are still available for double that so still good value for money and IMO one of the best standard engines you can get.
I am resisting the upgrade route so have bought a pair of replacement turbo's for a couple of hundred quid and I'm now relatively confident that its just the rear turbo as it still revs nicely and sounds healthy. The replacements should get here Monday so I'll know by Monday night if all is well.
When I did the conversion the complete donor car cost me £400 and I will now struggle to get a good replacement for that. They are still available for double that so still good value for money and IMO one of the best standard engines you can get.
johnymd
Club Member
It was over boosting because the target boost in the map was set to 1bar. The ecu started opening the waist gate progressively from around .8bar and with it fully open at 1bar the boost was still rising as the integral waist gates are too small for the exhaust flow.
I've just taken the turbo's off to see if I have damaged the impellers or lost any tips. See if you can spot what's wrong with one of them.
I've just taken the turbo's off to see if I have damaged the impellers or lost any tips. See if you can spot what's wrong with one of them.
Attachments
Haha! You seem to be missing a exhaust turbine! Although the manifold may be costly, single turbo conversions are so popular I wonder whether that may be an option for you. I'm sure seconds come up. With modern turbos to the lag may even be negligible. Something with an external waste gate, that would solve your boost creep problem too.