datsfun
Club Member
Well I for one prefer the well maintained "patinad" cars that show some signs of usage over the years over a minty fresh restored example.
So your car would be accomodate at my NEC stand Rob.
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Fame at last!!!!! Classic & Sports Car magazine.
- Thread starter AliK
- Start date
Well I for one prefer the well maintained "patinad" cars that show some signs of usage over the years over a minty fresh restored example.
So your car would be accomodate at my NEC stand Rob.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Agreed - all these new minters are too sterile - classic cars should be classic - ie have lived and shown to be.
chrisvega
Well-Known Forum User
The 240Z is not a shiny restored car but a 55k mile one owner completely original car I imported last year from South East USA. Subsequently picked up by JD Classics who had it up for sale at their Mayfair showroom POA - anyone managed to find out what the asking price actually is yet ? Should have been a keeper but circumstances at the time meant otherwise, on second thoughts don't tell me 
The 240Z is not a shiny restored car but a 55k mile one owner completely original car I imported last year from South East USA. Subsequently picked up by JD Classics who had it up for sale at their Mayfair showroom POA - anyone managed to find out what the asking price actually is yet ? Should have been a keeper but circumstances at the time meant otherwise, on second thoughts don't tell me
Wow, that one - I've edited my comment to say 'usually means a restored car'. RHD car though would be hard to find.
The 240Z is not a shiny restored car but a 55k mile one owner completely original car I imported last year from South East USA. Subsequently picked up by JD Classics who had it up for sale at their Mayfair showroom POA - anyone managed to find out what the asking price actually is yet ? Should have been a keeper but circumstances at the time meant otherwise, on second thoughts don't tell me
Yes, but sworn to secrecy. Needless to say it's one of the top end asks given who is selling it and their brand.
BTW it's still got the US Air Force pass on the front bumper. A very tidy car, but I wouldn't call it A1 Concourse, just a genuine superb condition survivor. Am I being harsh?
chrisvega
Well-Known Forum User
No, definitely not a concours car but just a super nice original patina'd car. The worst aspect was the number of dimple dents on the body from where it had been parked in the owners garage next to bikes, lawnmowers and stuff. Some of these I had pulled out by Dent specialist but some could not be accessed. There was a slight amount of rust to the rear lower sill/dogleg area which I imagine may have been addressed now by JD but just added to the originality and patina really. The original owner is still around in his 80s now and was a USAF B52 pilot and served in Vietnam !
Why the secrecy over the price ? If they want to sell it may help a potential buyer to know how much
I sent a mail asking for price and they didn't even reply May work selling Jags and Astons but like to think us Z owners are a little more grounded. Dislike POA ads at the best of times !
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
OK, I've just stumped up my £4.80 for the October 2015 issue of Classic & Sports Car magazine. Now I feel entitled to comment on the article:
First thing that jumps out at me is the misspelling of engineer Hitoshi Uemura's name ("Uemera" in the article) which is sloppy and shows bad proof-reading. Uemura gets mentioned little enough in relation to the creation of these cars as it is, so it's saddening to see them get his name wrong in one of the few instances he does get a mention...
On reading through, my impression is what is this article actually all about? If - as was claimed - it's focusing on the UK market cars, then why so much mention of North American market specific story and data, and why the inclusion of a North American market HLS30-U model as one of the photo/drive test subjects? There's also some confusion about specs and details.
And I just don't get the thinking behind the inclusion of the S130-series car. It's a nice car (compliments to the owner), and the S130-series overall gets little to no press coverage in such magazines, but it has almost nothing to do with the subject of the S30-series that came before it. It's a completely different series of car, not just some kind of re-styling/re-engineering of an earlier model. The S130-series Z deserves its own article.
But biggest bugbear - once again - and despite my best efforts to get the point across, we get the "240Z was the original/first" mindset. The term '240Z' doesn't even mean just one thing anyway, but whatever it means the '240Z' badged cars were categorically not "the original/the first". This is a fundamental and often repeated mistake.
When will we see a balanced and well-researched magazine article that starts with the understanding that the S30-series was a family of models, at concept, through engineering, styling, development, sales and marketing? No time soon, it seems...
First thing that jumps out at me is the misspelling of engineer Hitoshi Uemura's name ("Uemera" in the article) which is sloppy and shows bad proof-reading. Uemura gets mentioned little enough in relation to the creation of these cars as it is, so it's saddening to see them get his name wrong in one of the few instances he does get a mention...
On reading through, my impression is what is this article actually all about? If - as was claimed - it's focusing on the UK market cars, then why so much mention of North American market specific story and data, and why the inclusion of a North American market HLS30-U model as one of the photo/drive test subjects? There's also some confusion about specs and details.
And I just don't get the thinking behind the inclusion of the S130-series car. It's a nice car (compliments to the owner), and the S130-series overall gets little to no press coverage in such magazines, but it has almost nothing to do with the subject of the S30-series that came before it. It's a completely different series of car, not just some kind of re-styling/re-engineering of an earlier model. The S130-series Z deserves its own article.
But biggest bugbear - once again - and despite my best efforts to get the point across, we get the "240Z was the original/first" mindset. The term '240Z' doesn't even mean just one thing anyway, but whatever it means the '240Z' badged cars were categorically not "the original/the first". This is a fundamental and often repeated mistake.
When will we see a balanced and well-researched magazine article that starts with the understanding that the S30-series was a family of models, at concept, through engineering, styling, development, sales and marketing? No time soon, it seems...
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
Would it not be good to give just a little bit of praise here
You state that Hitoshi Uemura's gets mentioned little enough in relation to the creation of these cars as it is,so as it is included in this article (although it has a error on the spelling) maybe just a little of praise for this inclusion from you could be justified.
Damn!! Did you and Malcolm not get to speak before the article. I know he was really keen to talk to you.
That will only happen on the day you write one!
Seriously though have we as a club ever considered using the benefit of your experience/knowledge to write a reference piece on the S30 family which could be leveraged by journos? I feel without this, what recourse have they but to refer to publicly available / historic (and sometimes inaccurate) articles?
I'm certain people like Malcolm aren't lazy and don't set out to get the facts wrong. So how can we help them get the facts out there and at their disposal? I feel we missed an opportunity here but there will be more in the future, so how can we capitalise on them?
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Since it was myself who put his name (amongst the others mentioned) forward for the article in the first place, no...
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Despite reservations, I ended up playing e-mail tennis with Malcolm for a couple of weeks during August. I made a great effort to guide him in a particular direction, but on reading the final article it looks like I was only able to stop him from dropping some enormous clangers.
smileyinside said:
It's articles like this - and many more like them - that reinforce the myths and misconceptions. They build up like layers of sediment to form rock, and they are what future articles will be built on.
The trouble is, they never seem to think about *our* cars as worthy of more than a bit of a sideways glance. It's ironic given the 'best selling sports car' tone of such articles that they always seem to go off half-cocked. The journalists are always rushed for time, rushed for page space and have to rely on willing owners to lend them their cars for the coverage. Contrast this with the 'advertorial' tie-ups with big auction houses, where high profile and high value cars that are coming up for auction get star billing and lavish coverage because the auction houses are important clients. There just doesn't seem to be any pressure to get things right with regard to the topic of the Z, and even if there was a simple fact sheet or a more comprehensive reference available to them they'd probably ignore it.
In this particular instance, I'm afraid Malcolm started with a mistaken premise and some iffy data and there was really no way of changing it. I tried to coax him in the right direction by explaining things and giving him more reference but he only cherry picked what he wanted from our correspondence.
In my personal view this is more a matter of mindset than anything else. The Big Picture is easy to see if you open your eyes. The cars themselves tell half the story if you'll let them (surely even looking at a bare bodyshell would tell you that there's a little more to all this than we usually hear or read?), but when was the last time you saw a magazine or 'net based article lining up ALL the models in the S30-series Z range - as at launch in November 1969 - and explaining that Nissan had just gone to great lengths to design and engineer a FAMILY of models under the S30-series heading? They simply don't get it.
That'll be our lot for a year or two in Classic & Sports Car magazine I should think. Oh well...
Alan, thanks for taking the time to write the detailed response and i like to think I speak for all of us when I say a sincere thanks for spending the time guiding Malcolm on behalf of the club.
I love your layers of sediment analogy! Works on so many levels (if you pardon the unintentional pun)!
I guess it's a matter of patience and time until things get more accurate but I don't believe anyone will ever write a 100% accurate account as, say, if you worked for a mag. As you say, they are all pushed for time, have a tonne of cars and manufacturers to cover as well as working to divergent agendas of their stakeholders. So I feel for people like Malcolm.
None-the-less, I don't feel the time was wasted as it's probably the most accurate article I've personally read on the Z. Maybe now that we have a relationship with Malcolm we can suggest a follow up future (be it a year or 3) article as per your brilliant suggestion. That would be such a great article to read.
On a slightly different note, I bought a couple of copies today, one of which is going in the post tomorrow as a surprise for the previous owner. After all TYM was a big part of his life and he spent 6 years getting the car down to metal and back, then four years loving and displaying her. I just put the polish on / hang shiny bits off his work
I love your layers of sediment analogy! Works on so many levels (if you pardon the unintentional pun)!
I guess it's a matter of patience and time until things get more accurate but I don't believe anyone will ever write a 100% accurate account as, say, if you worked for a mag. As you say, they are all pushed for time, have a tonne of cars and manufacturers to cover as well as working to divergent agendas of their stakeholders. So I feel for people like Malcolm.
None-the-less, I don't feel the time was wasted as it's probably the most accurate article I've personally read on the Z. Maybe now that we have a relationship with Malcolm we can suggest a follow up future (be it a year or 3) article as per your brilliant suggestion. That would be such a great article to read.
On a slightly different note, I bought a couple of copies today, one of which is going in the post tomorrow as a surprise for the previous owner. After all TYM was a big part of his life and he spent 6 years getting the car down to metal and back, then four years loving and displaying her. I just put the polish on / hang shiny bits off his work
Short reply for now:
I enjoyed the article (shame about the dodgy blue 260) and Alan it has been said many times - get writing!
My Dad wrote a book just to get stuff down before it's lost. When you are older you may regret not doing that.
I enjoyed the article (shame about the dodgy blue 260) and Alan it has been said many times - get writing!
My Dad wrote a book just to get stuff down before it's lost. When you are older you may regret not doing that.
LOL! Seriously, they take photos of any old rusty junk!!
Please do Alan! I know I'll regret it !!
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Glad to see you're pleased mr Smileyinside. I'm sure if women hear there's a picture of you in a magazine it'll sell out fast.
Side question for Alan, are nostalgic Japan still working on some sort of publication, with your input or am I getting wires crossed?
Side question for Alan, are nostalgic Japan still working on some sort of publication, with your input or am I getting wires crossed?
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
I'm not working directly on anything that will be published, as far as I'm aware. Nostalgic Hero magazine and Geibun Mooks are apparently still working on their S30-series 'Complete Book' project but it's nothing to do with me and as far as I know it's nowhere near finished yet.
Privately I'm always active in research, data and document gathering, acquiring photos and talking to the people involved as far as is possible. My bias is with the competition side of things (racing mostly in Japan, and rallying worldwide) but I'm also intrigued by the story surrounding the concept, design and engineering of the S30-series Z so I follow that wherever it takes me.
Some of the key figures have already passed, and others are getting on. Their stories need to be heard and recorded. Tragically, Kumeo Tamura - a guy whose virtual fingerprints are all over *our* cars - passed away (too young!) earlier this year. I had the privilege of meeting and befriending him over the last few years, and now feel that his name needs to be known and remembered. Hopefully later this year I'll be able to meet a few more key people in Japan, but the more you dig the further away the bottom of the hole seems to get. It's a big topic...
Glad to see you're pleased mr Smileyinside. I'm sure if women hear there's a picture of you in a magazine it'll sell out fast.
It's the nose, I'm telling you!! Ref. Oceans 13 movie)
I really admire the indefatigable efforts and passion Alan.
It would be such a shame if we lost your research. It's amazing how much depth and breadth there is to the z story. Thank goodness you speak Japanese!!
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
For those who want to know more about Kumeo Tamura involvement there is a fantastic thread here http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/33645-who-actually-did-s30s-styling-we-can-make-it-clear/ it is a quite a long thread with some excellent photos and sketches in it and well worth a read
ben240z
Club Member
Foolishly I also bought a copy of C & S Car in anticipation of the article. Having read it I did feel swindled by the usual 'Z' trot but am truly shocked (having not purchases a copy of the magazine for many years) by the asking prices of mainstream classic cars! Having now looked through the whole of the publication it is very clear that Asian cars just do not appear and can exist (for now) only on the fringe of the UK classic scene.
I was though interested (P 262) by the Joop Stolze ad and the startling number of Z's (though sadly all lhd) for sale. www.stolzeclassiccars.nl
I was though interested (P 262) by the Joop Stolze ad and the startling number of Z's (though sadly all lhd) for sale. www.stolzeclassiccars.nl