Competition 260Zs

[Legendary5]

Cos Symon and I need as much info (and photos) to build a 260Z 2 seater grp 4 racer and register (FIA) the car as a competition car to compete in several races over here, notably the Tour de France (mix of several circuits and road rallys) and Le Mans Classic - I was under the (mis) apprehension that thge second Le Mans race was competed in a 260 shell ? And that the year after was genuinely competed with a 260 !QUOTE]

If this is what you want Group 4!.. You can’t escape from wide arches!! I recall you send me 3 photographs of the number 73!!!

 

[SeanDezart]

Enlarged arches, perhaps, but not obliged to look like those :-(

And 'our' car would have to able to cope with road rallyes so flares are out (too liable to get damaged ! The grp 4 rules applied to a 260 would allow many more intellligent mods than we could get away with on a 240 and allow us to be more competitive (even if not beating, dear Count) the bigger and 'better' competition !

And 260 competition photos are still scarce apparently as this thread has attracted only 240Z photos !

Thanks for this one though Got any colour ones of the Le Mans racers, especially the Sion one that you can email me please ?

 

[Legendary5]

Enlarged arches, perhaps, but not obliged to look like those :-(

And 260 competition photos are still scarce apparently as this thread has attracted only 240Z photos !
QUOTE]

that is, because WE did all the work!!!!

 

[Legendary5]

number 73

 

[Albrecht]

.....And 260 competition photos are still scarce apparently as this thread has attracted only 240Z photos !

Coming online and asking people to give them to you is NOT research, Sean. If you want to build a competition car then you will have to do a lot of the legwork yourself.

Ever stopped to think why "260Z" competition car photos might be a bit thin on the ground? I can think of a LOT of good reasons, and the main one might well be that the RS30 / RLS30 debuted right in the middle of the so-called "Oil Shock". Go back and look at old copies of Autosport and Motor Sport from that period and you will see that each issue is a hell of a lot thinner than the ones from 70, 71 & 72 for example. Less events, less cars, less photos.

Got any colour ones of the Le Mans racers, especially the Sion one that you can email me please ?

Both the SAME car Sean - remember?

 

[Albrecht]

The grp 4 rules applied to a 260 would allow many more intellligent mods than we could get away with on a 240 and allow us to be more competitive (even if not beating, dear Count) the bigger and 'better' competition !

I don't understand this. The updates to the homologation allow you to run the same modifications on a '260Z' as you could run on a '240Z'. The only immediately apparent benefit of using a '260Z' over a '240Z' for a Gr.4 car would be the stronger bodyshell of the later car. All the stuff you can bolt onto those shells is essentially the same, with the exception of the engine capacity.

Current '240Z' competition cars built to FIA Gp.4 rules are already using some parts and specs that applied to the '260Z'. If you are entering events run under strictly-enforced FIA rules then surely you need to start with a car that has "continuous competition history" - or are you ignoring that?

I'd have thought you need to pay more attention to the rules of the events that you want to enter rather than anything else. No?

Modern historic racing seems to be more about what your other competitors will allow you to get away with before they protest you than anything else. If you go in with the intention of ruffling feathers and shaking up the Porsche / Alpine / Escort crowd then be prepared for them to bite you if you start doing well.

 

[Legendary5]

Sean,

Did you made inquire with the FIA in Paris as I told before and did you got the homologation papers of the Z, number 3023?

 

[SeanDezart]

Hmmmm, Guus, your photos are great and you are a mine of information (on 240s) but perhaps you're camoflaging for a lack of knowledge on the 260s ? No, I haven't inquired with the FIA - you reminded me that it would cost a lot and right now (and if you knew just how precarious are our job situations) I can 'only' commit money to the real thing - lil' yella.....

My dear Count, I understood that only the 260 was cleared for enlarging to 2.9 litre and could run on fuel injection and since the 'poor' Z is going to need all the help it can get.... The reason for choosing a 260 is also to boost the poor sister to the 240 - and everyone's doing it in a 240 these days, why not be a little more original ?

We do intend to ruffle feathers, if we can't, we shan't even start, we don't want to be a traffic cone (sorry, French expression for someone who's almost standing still !


And Count, I asked for some photos of the competing 260s, I will begin my research in earnest when I've seen more on the competing history of these seemingly under-documented competition cars ! Less photos, yes, understood but most write ups leap from the 240Z to the 280ZXs of Devendorf / Newman !

And yes, Sean has been educated - they are the same car !

 

[STEVE BURNS]

sean

walt mass did well in the 260 in the states

 

[Albrecht]

Hmmmm, Guus, your photos are great and you are a mine of information (on 240s) but perhaps you're camoflaging for a lack of knowledge on the 260s ?

Ouch! Guus probably knows more than you ever will, Sean.

No, I haven't inquired with the FIA - you reminded me that it would cost a lot and right now (and if you knew just how precarious are our job situations) I can 'only' commit money to the real thing - lil' yella.....

Around £45 for the FIA to send you photocopies of the full papers including all amendments last time I did it. Would it be too rude of me to say that I don't expect your project to be starting any time soon if you can't spare £45 for the most useful and informative data on the homologation you can get?

My dear Count, I understood that only the 260 was cleared for enlarging to 2.9 litre and could run on fuel injection and since the 'poor' Z is going to need all the help it can get....

Again, it depends more on the rules of the events you are going to enter - and if you are going to enter several different types of events then I would imagine you are going to have to comply with several sets of regulations. You are going to have to build a car that will be legal for them ALL, unless you are rich enough and have time enough to change the car's specs and equipment for different events.

The works rally 240Zs ( HS30 and HLS30 ) used injection setups in period ( and engines bigger than 2.4 litres ), so I don't see why you are saying that only the 260Z is allowed to run it. I think you will find that the problem is related to the type of injection setup you use, and how it is controlled. Strictly following the FIA rules ( I believe ) you would be allowed to run a car with the exact type of injection system that was used in period - but nothing else. A modern EFI system with modern computer control is ( again, as I understand it ) not going to be legal.

That does not mean you can't find some events where a modern EFI system will be legal to use, but the point is you need to know what events you are going to be entering and what their rules are before you build the car. This is why the £45 odd quid for the FIA homologation papers is in my opinion more important than anything else. At least it would give you an idea of what was legal 'in period'.

I was busily gathering period photos of works Cherries for you and you go and move the bloody goal posts............

 

[STEVE BURNS]

just as a point of interest just read thet rob collinge is changing from a 240z to a 260z for the 2005 East african rally

 

[ben240z]

sean , janspeed ran the 240z as a 2.9 mechanical fuel injected turbo in the group 5 series and it was homolugated. I know that this is not helping you with your search for the 260 info but it might be of some use as at least you now know that the engine size can be increased and boosted within the rules. good luck with the search and project. cheers ben

 

[Legendary5]

just as a point of interest just read thet rob collinge is changing from a 240z to a 260z for the 2005 East african rally

Steve,

Where did you get this information from, not from here I supose???

 

[Legendary5]

Sean,



Did you know your good friend Miroux drove a 260Z 2+2 at Francorchamps back in '75. With wide arches.......

It's time to visit that man seriously, so go ask him plenty of questions like the racing the cherries, the Z and so on........it's time to raise you lazy but

 

[SeanDezart]

Well, I thank you all for kicking my butt ! In fact, err, it's like this, I'm sort of err, asking for a friend, well, yes and err, yes I can afford 45 quid, and yes I will contact them for the papers. I'm not driving the project, figuratively and financially. The event wished to be undertaken is the Tour de France and others unknown as yet afterwards but not excluding Le Mans Classic.

Count, the Cherry project is between myself and you know who in La Rochelle and is still current, more relevant for me as I know he and I can probably afford it together !
I appreciate your help for that and I assume we'll be contacting you for some parts advice too !

Guus, I didn't know that Dady Miroux raced a 2+2 in '75, glad someone did and at least I raised my butt to be the first to travel to watch and support them race in France and they became members of our club ! The last time you raised your butt to come here your rally-replica replicated the rally cars and returned courtesy of the ANWB and I'm sorry I can't come to Holland this time, Cathy has lost her job, and mine is not looking good !

Ben, thanks, I thought that the 240 was only homologated up to 2.5 litre spec !

In fact, looking around, competition data is not widely published, yeah if you start a sherlock trail you will get there but there is no reference library for Zs as Club Porsche might have or Jaguar !
I don't suppose the club archives have anything in detail, just old magazines and Z features in the classic press ?

Count, I think the idea is to have throttle bodies ? But then, I'm no engineer !

 

[STEVE BURNS]

Steve,

Where did you get this information from, not from here I supose???

Guus
found it at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2004/11/05/emfsaf06.xml&sSheet=/motoring/2004/11/05/ixmot.html

 

[Legendary5]

tour de france

Well, I thank you all for kicking my butt ! In fact, err, it's like this, I'm sort of err, asking for a friend, well, yes and err, yes I can afford 45 quid, and yes I will contact them for the papers. I'm not driving the project, figuratively and financially. The event wished to be undertaken is the Tour de France and others unknown as yet afterwards but not excluding Le Mans Classic.

sean, did you knew some guys are taking a Datsun Z to the Tour de France next september??
I quote:
"Thanks for the invitation but I'm not sure to be in a position to attend as I'm registered for the France Tour Classic which begins on the very first days of September.

Currently we are working on a race engine with three Weber and a big heart (2.8) which promises to be powerfull. I expect the engine to be ready for the end of june/beginning of july."

 

[SeanDezart]

Oh god, not another Frenchie living in the past ! Always Webers, always a 2.8 that they think, directly transplanted from a ZX will pull 300 bhp !

Even my road car will take this idea and leave it in the stone age !

 

[Legendary5]

sean, what means "'débourrage bloc" are we going for stroker

 

[SeanDezart]

Most probably a slight-overbore to 'clean up' the interior of the pistons - to débourrer means to un-block something - it's not strictly technical French to be applied to an engine !
Who's your pidgeon and is he having his car prepared by Ocean Motorsport at Pornichet, near Nantes ?
I assume also we are talking about a 240 here (on this 260 thread) !