Spike and samuri new web site

[Albrecht]

Monsieur, you've been very fortunate, mixing business with pleasure and therefore having many opportunities to have doors opened for you - the langauge barrier has been less of an obstacle also.

Fortunate? I haven't had much handed to me on a plate. I've spent a lot of time - and money (!!!) - chasing my interests, and the more you uncover the more questions there are to be answered. I don't even know half of what it is I don't know yet.......

Why should 'they' be bothered with who designed the engine? A guy prepares a car because he sees potential in it, a potential big enough to exploit against the competition. Spike did his bit with what was in front of him and leart elsewhere - Nissan and certainly not Datsun UK helped not one jot.

OK - this is the type of thing we can discuss. You don't think they need be bothered by the identity of the L-gata engine's chief designer, and yet in the same paragraph you acknowledge that the car ( the basic design that is ) had a big potential. And yet with all that 'Samuri' hype I'm being asked to believe that the addition of a few different parts effectively turns that car into something else entirely - to the stage that the 'Samuri' name eclipses everything else about the car. And yet the car remains demonstrably miles more Nissan than it does 'Samuri'. Where's the credit going? An outsider reading these stories might be excused for believing that the people at Nissan had no idea what they were doing, and somebody came along and 'showed them what they should have done'.

C'mon, you snipe every time that some history somewhere squeezes out from under the carpet.

Do I? What "history" am I sniping at this time then? As far as I can see, this thread is based on something slightly to the left of pure history. But if the "history" you speak of is dead-on correct, there will be nothing for nitpickers and pedants like me to make ammunition out of, will there?

But this thread, and the discussion that I am trying to prompt, is not about me, is it?. I certainly hope not, so please stop asking me to "share". I already have, and still do.

I wonder if this thread will end up being the longest one we ever have on this board ?

I can't imagine that it will. I'm already losing any hope of a sensible discussion about this stuff. It just seems to confirm that most British early Z fans were - and still are - happy to focus on a local legend, and have little or no desire to see it as part of a bigger story. For them it seems to be THE story, rather than a sub-plot that was riding on the work of many unsung others.

 

[Emerald]

What's that saying that goes something like "History is according to who writes about it" ??

Wrong................the winners always write history............adinfinitem

 

[ZHead]

Samuri is actually qut an interesting topic and Spike has told me quite a few really amusing and funny anecdotes in the past, personally I think the words "cottage industry" sum Samuri up quite well.

For example the spelling ..... common knowledge now that it was an ignorant spelling mistake when they were actually trying to spell samuri but no one could agree on the correct spelling. Once the sign writing had been done it stuck.

What about the technical side ??? What ACTUALLY is a samuri or super samuri ?? Why did some have different exhausts ? Different carbs ? Different springs etc etc etc ? Fundamentally, when the account at one supplier was put on stop for non payment, they simply sourced parts elsewhere.

So yes, Samuri has a legendary name ...... but put into perspective, it has a legendary name on an island.... a little one at that....

Samuri was as quintessentially British as fish and chips or port and stilton - it was a guy in a shed making the best of what he could lay his hands on. Spike did a very fine job in his day but by today's standards, the work was simple and almost barbaric (thinking of flame cutting springs down to lower the car etc).

I can think of one top engine builder in the UK at the moment who's work FAR outweighs and outstrips anything spike ever produced ...... maybe the "new" samuris (oldy worldy racers) should have one of his engines ?

Another current guy at the top of his game can produce more RELIABLE and stable horsepower than even Big Sam had, the most legendary samuri of all (Big Sam was named because it had big arches and spoilers - Spike did not know what to call it so it started as "the big sam(uri) and ended up being personified as Big Sam) Add that to the technical advances in diffs, gearboxes, shift technology, suspension etc etc etc and he can produce a WAY superior car ......

Personally I love the codge it, floor it and hang on attitude that made Samuri the name that it was, well prepared heads, big valves, big carbs and a GDS Flamespray exhaust .... so typically british and dare I say "clubman" ..... BUT .......... other people in Japan and the States had not only done it first but had pushed the envelope further.

So Samuri IS a certain amount of myth and hype but it nevertheless conjures up imagery of yesteryear, the underdog and a scary moustache sometimes Long live the myth but take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[samuri-240]

I can think of one top engine builder in the UK at the moment who's work FAR outweighs and outstrips anything spike ever produced ...... maybe the "new" samuris (oldy worldy racers) should have one of his engines ?

say no more !!!

 

[SeanDezart]

Fortunate? I haven't had much handed to me on a plate. I've spent a lot of time - and money (!!!) - chasing my interests, and the more you uncover the more questions there are to be answered. I don't even know half of what it is I don't know yet.......

And you qualify therefore as a passionate owner who's passion manifests itself in boldy seeking new frontiers and knowledge AND creating your own private S30 museum in your castle !

Other people here express their passion for their Zs / ZXs differently - vive la difference and don't knock those that aren't bothered to know more.

OK - this is the type of thing we can discuss. You don't think they need be bothered by the identity of the L-gata engine's chief designer, and yet in the same paragraph you acknowledge that the car ( the basic design that is ) had a big potential. And yet with all that 'Samuri' hype I'm being asked to believe that the addition of a few different parts effectively turns that car into something else entirely - to the stage that the 'Samuri' name eclipses everything else about the car. And yet the car remains demonstrably miles more Nissan than it does 'Samuri'. Where's the credit going?

But this thread, and the discussion that I am trying to prompt, is not about me, is it?. I certainly hope not, so please stop asking me to "share". I already have, and still do.

It's always the same tune though, you against the UK Z scene 'cos we're ignorant, want to stay ignorant (lack of motivation and superflous resources ?) and believe that in the UK, the UK Zs history is the most important ! Why're you crusading for Japan ? If THEY thought it more important to 'convert' the world, they'd be doing more than singing the cars' praises merely in Japan !
Blimey Count, name any car manufactured anywhere and I'll bet that some tiny export country will be clapping each others' owners on the backs irrespcetive of where the car was made eg 911s in the UK, Ford Mustangs in France, MGs in Amercia........

.........I'm already losing any hope of a sensible discussion about this stuff. It just seems to confirm that most British early Z fans were - and still are - happy to focus on a local legend, and have little or no desire to see it as part of a bigger story. For them it seems to be THE story, rather than a sub-plot that was riding on the work of many unsung others.

"it seems"...."them"..."most" - very, very vague, general and obviously your persnal opinion without actually asking what people think - YOU know ! Almost as arrogant as the supposed mass not seeming to care.

YOU want to see more interest in lesser known facts - give us some, let them be discussed.

This thread is about Samuri, it isn't a sub-plot - HSCC racing perhaps was a sub-plot of Samuri - everything's connected.

Where/who did a UK Z owner go to in the '70s to improve upon a great car ?

Where/who did the 'ricains go to?

Where/who did the Japanese go to?

What will anyone think who googles 'Samuri' and arrives here not knowing about The Z Club before ? Bunch of squabbling, grumpy old men ? There are people here who were having their Zs 'sorted' by Samuri, others have been encouraged by what they saw, heard on the track - that's all positive.

An outsider reading these stories might be excused for believing that the people at Nissan had no idea what they were doing, and somebody came along and 'showed them what they should have done'.

What does Spike think after 'coming in' from the cold ?

If Nissan had done more in the UK, one of the countries with the most per capita car and racing enthusiasts, then perhaps there would have been less 'gloss' on the name Samuri but they didn't and a small outfit took all (most) the glory sitting there to be had ! Can't begrudge 'em that Count.

Samuri didn't show Nissan what they should have done - they showed them what they could have done (uniquely) in the UK !

Don't anyone miss the point of DJR being involved - he's been evolving and developing Zs ever since (and before) Spike left the scene.

Someone else we can call a passionate Z owner who expresses that passion differently from the rest of us and who's also spent a lot of time and money doing so !

 

[Mr Ex]

The bottom line is: Spike & Samuri being the "underdog" beat the money no object 911's to the '74 Blue Circle Mod-sports championship with the unknown Wyn Percy who went on to GREATER things.

 

[samuri-240]

A Samuri was & still is a very special & impressive car (we are talking 30 odd years ago) anyone that's never been in a modified 240Z would appreciate it very much even in 2008 !!! not bad for a 33 year old car. Spike put to very good use what was available or what could be adapted to upgrade the Z cars in the uk back then. Its totally different these days you can get virtually anything you can think of & there is masses of info available. Saying that I would image if Spike was still running Samuri Engineering he would still be ahead of the field, sorry DJ !!!

P.S. Stop slagging spike off, he provided many of us older geezers with Z's that gave us endless hours of fun.

Heres to Spike Anderson

 

[SeanDezart]

A Samuri was & still is a very special & impressive car (we are talking 30 odd years ago) anyone that's never been in a modified 240Z would appreciate it very much even in 2008 !!! not bad for a 33 year old car. Spike put to very good use what was available or what could be adapted to upgrade the Z cars in the uk back then. Its totally different these days you can get virtually anything you can think of & there is masses of info available. Saying that I would image if Spike was still running Samuri Engineering he would still be ahead of the field, sorry DJ !!!

Sorry Gwyn - my car is also 35 years old, the engine is only slightly less old (being an L28) but it will leave any current Samuri or Super Samuri standing - my car is a package, not just a cylinder head !
And I don't agree that there is massive amounts of S30 info available - it's there but still only trickles out of Japan - ask Mr Kiddell !

Did I read right that Mr Ex (a Sam. man) got Big Sams' date wrong ?

 

[samuri-240]

Sorry Gwyn - my car is also 35 years old, the engine is only slightly less old (being an L28) but it will leave any current Samuri or Super Samuri standing - my car is a package, not just a cylinder head !
And I don't agree that there is massive amounts of S30 info available - it's there but still only trickles out of Japan - ask Mr Kiddell !

Did I read right that Mr Ex (a Sam. man) got Big Sams' date wrong ?

Sean Your car may be 35 yr old but its not long been rebuilt also it is a 3.1, would imagine Spike would have been building 3.1's by now if he was still trading, also where did the techno come from to build your engine ?
Look out Sam no 75's on the way it might surprise you

Question : Who was the first person in the uk to build a Z with a N/A L series engine to out perform a Samuri & what year was it ?

 

[Albrecht]

Thanks to ZHead for a balanced and well written post that was an enjoyable read.

The bottom line is: Spike & Samuri being the "underdog" beat the money no object 911's to the '74 Blue Circle Mod-sports championship with the unknown Wyn Percy who went on to GREATER things.

No offence Mr Ex, but this is just the kind of hyperbole I'm talking about.

First of all the '74 achievement was a class win rather than an overall championship, which is a bit different. Secondly, who says that all the 911s were "money no object"? That sounds suspiciously like inverted snobbery to me, and I'm sure that Anderson and his team would have been delighted to spend more money should it have been available.

Again, not wishing to belittle the achievement in any way ( I believe the car had good potential, and for sure WIn Percy - note the spelling - was a great driver ) but a look at the DNSs and DNFs for the class in that championship tells its own tale; One DNS and three DNFs ( two engine failures and a car-wrecking crash ) would not normally leave you in a position to take a class win at the end of the year, but 1974 seems to have been quite unusual in that respect. You'd have to say that the other competitors in that class must have been even more unlucky...........

A word about the car ( cars! ) that took that class championship: 'Big Sam' ( not forgetting "FFA" standing in for one round ) was arguably almost as exotic as some of those "money no object" Porsches. Both of Big Sam's two bodyshells were ex-Works items ( and therefore quite different from that of a standard road car ) and the first was acquired from the hands of Rob Grant and Martin Birrane already prepped as a circuit racing car. This car had already been campaigned in European GT races, and Grant had already been as far as Angola with his other ex-Works 240Z. The two ex-Works ( ex-1970 RAC Rally ) 240Zs campaigned by Grant / Birrane / Lavoipierre et al had already racked up the miles in circuit racing before one of them became what we might call 'Big Sam version 1' - which was effectively the ex-Grant car with a paint job and some signwriting. Reading the samuri.eu version of that story would leave you thinking that most of that never happened........

I'm not exactly unromantic at heart, but when it comes to circuit racing give me Spa, The Nurburgring, Kyalami, Le Sarthe and other far-flung race tracks over a wet weekend at Croft or Llandow any day! 'Big Sam' arguably contained parts, data and know-how from being campaigned in all those places before the 1974 Blue Circle Cement Modsports Championship, and yet that seems to be overlooked. Funny that.

I wouldn't call that "setting the record straight". I wonder if the book will be a little bit more honest, but perhaps a true warts-and-all job would not get past the lawyers........?

 

[Albrecht]

Question : Who was the first person in the uk to build a Z with a N/A L series engine to out perform a Samuri & what year was it ?

I'm still the first person on my street ( if you don't count the houses with the even numbers ) to build an N/A L-series engine at all! I'm the king of the hill!

But seriously, this kind of talk is just daft in the grand scheme of things. How do you quantify "out perform a Samuri", and in what parameters? Which Samuri anyway? Exactly how much wit and wisdom did it take to do a standard porting job, fit an aftermarket cam ( somebody else's grind! ), a set of carbs and an exhaust manifold? I'm sorry, but it's not rocket science really is it?

 

[samuri-240]

I'm still the first person on my street ( if you don't count the houses with the even numbers ) to build an N/A L-series engine at all! I'm the king of the hill!

But seriously, this kind of talk is just daft in the grand scheme of things. How do you quantify "out perform a Samuri", and in what parameters? Which Samuri anyway? Exactly how much wit and wisdom did it take to do a standard porting job, fit an aftermarket cam ( somebody else's grind! ), a set of carbs and an exhaust manifold? I'm sorry, but it's not rocket science really is it?

No it was not rocket science , but in its day it worked very very well. Who offered anything like it in the uk at that time. These days you can put your fancy modern motors in skyline chevy etc etc probably alot cheaper than a properly sorted L series, but as far as I'm concerned its not a Z anymore, the original L series should be left in place .
The end of the day everyone has different views, opinions etc on everything,
Each to their own I guess.
All I can say is thanks Spike & hope Sam 75 kicks some ass very big style

 

[SeanDezart]

http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8206&highlight=rob+grant

Thanks but I'm getting nowhere and nobody seems to care.

I consider that everybody who's raced in Europe has wanted to culminate at Le Mans - it's the natural step !

Zs have raced in Japan (we're barely aware of that still), they've raced in the States (that, we're very aware of), they raced in South Africa ( there is the '75 Le Mans car connection) and they raced in Europe - there, all we hear is Big Sam and The Blue Circle Trophy !

I'm not belittling that superb trial but it has eclipsed other races and the Z if nothing else is know for it's endurance - that means racing everywhere, against everything...that's it, I'm waffling so time to put the glass down and go to bed !

http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6080&highlight=rob+grant

No, I meant the book that Paul Hardiman is supposed to be writing about Spike Anderson and Samuri Conversions.

I'm sure it will contain the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

All written two years ago - we haven't advanced much since have we ?

 

[Dave J]

Spike sent me this reply

 

[Mr.F]

Who offered anything like it in the uk at that time.

How about the Janspeed efforts? Including turbo installations.

 

[SeanDezart]

Sean Your car may be 35 yr old but its not long been rebuilt also it is a 3.1, would imagine Spike would have been building 3.1's by now if he was still trading, also where did the techno come from to build your engine ?

And you're missing the point, the 'new' engine is an old block and head...that Nissan produced all those years ago and has been used.

I bet some advice was passed on from Spike years ago - for the rest of your questions, why don't you ask HIM - his email address is on his website !

Look out Sam no 75's on the way it might surprise you

Don't get your hopes up It aint gonna kick my ass....AND mine's a road car.

 

[SeanDezart]

Another pertinent old thread :

http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6109&highlight=janspeed

 

[Ian Patmore]

All written two years ago - we haven't advanced much since have we ?

No

 

[ben240z]

How about the Janspeed efforts? Including turbo installations.

not worth mentioning according to a reply from sean in another thread as Jan Odor and the Janspeed concern were merely a backstreet garage playing at tuning cars

 

[SeanDezart]

So don't mention them then.

Ben,

As I mentioned before on the thread you started over at the Datsun Owners Club forum, the Janspeed Sunny started life as a proper Works circuit race car over in Japan.

Nissan brought it over to the UK for ace works driver Moto Kitano to drive in selected races during the 1973 season, and I know for sure that it raced at Silverstone and Mallory Park at least.

Nissan then 'gave' it to Janspeed - probably passing through the hands of Datsun UK I should think - and Janspeed started modifying it to their own specs ( most noticeably modifying the arches, and the paint scheme ).

I talked to Moto Kitano about this a few years ago, and he had some interesting stories to tell about the prejudice they came across whilst trying to race in the UK. A long story in itself.

I thought there was talk of it surviving in private hands just a few years ago?

Here's an article reporting on the Silverstone race from Autosport Japan in Sept. '73: