Slow indicators

skinjim

Club Member
The subject says it all really. My indicators are really slow, particularly the left one for some reason. I've taken the switch unit out and given it a good clean, which cured the intermittent fault I had on the left signal, but now it's just really lazy. Has anyone had the same issue? Faulty flasher unit maybe?

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jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
The subject says it all really. My indicators are really slow, particularly the left one for some reason. I've taken the switch unit out and given it a good clean, which cured the intermittent fault I had on the left signal, but now it's just really lazy. Has anyone had the same issue? Faulty flasher unit maybe?

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normally the speed of the indicators flashing is dependent on the current drawn by the bulbs - the more current drawn the faster it flashes. if you have a bulb out, it draws less current and flashes slow. same for LEDs.
I suppose high resistance from corrosion in connectors might have the same effect.
 

toopy

Club Member
normally the speed of the indicators flashing is dependent on the current drawn by the bulbs - the more current drawn the faster it flashes. if you have a bulb out, it draws less current and flashes slow. same for LEDs.
I suppose high resistance from corrosion in connectors might have the same effect.

I thought it was the other way round, so less current drawn with a bulb out, causes increased flashing speed. That's why you used to see older cars with rapid indicators on occasion because a bulb was out.
When i replaced the bulbs in my wing indicators with leds the flashing got a little quicker, which was desirable, because i think they normally flash on the slow side anyways!
 

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
I thought it was the other way round, so less current drawn with a bulb out, causes increased flashing speed. That's why you used to see older cars with rapid indicators on occasion because a bulb was out.
When i replaced the bulbs in my wing indicators with leds the flashing got a little quicker, which was desirable, because i think they normally flash on the slow side anyways!
ok, something something current something something [emoji4]
 

skinjim

Club Member
I've always thought they flashed faster with a bulb out too...in any case I don't have a bulb out! [emoji4] Is there any weird wiring change I have to make to use LEDs? Or is it just a case of swapping for different bulbs? Excuse my ignorance on this, I don't know much about car lighting!

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toopy

Club Member
I've always thought they flashed faster with a bulb out too...in any case I don't have a bulb out! [emoji4] Is there any weird wiring change I have to make to use LEDs? Or is it just a case of swapping for different bulbs? Excuse my ignorance on this, I don't know much about car lighting!

If your just changing a couple of bulbs to led, then like mine, it probably wont make a lot of difference. If you want all led, then they may flash to quickly or not at all, in which case you will need to buy a suitably more modern flasher relay, to cope with the much reduced current draw.

For all other lights, the change is more straight forward, bare in mind a red lense, as in brake lights, would usually require the use of a red led, a white one may be too bright and the colour will appear washed out. That also applies to the indicators, in most cases an amber led would look better than using a white one.

Retrofit led headlight bulbs are, I believe not road legal in housings designed for incandescent bulbs, but are ok if you are changing the whole unit which is purposely designed for led.
 

skinjim

Club Member
Thanks for this, I think I'll look into it, even if it doesn't cure the slow flashing problem it would be nice to have something a bit brighter for safety's sake anyway.

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toopy

Club Member
It's also possible the hazard relay and or the hazard switch and associated wiring could also cause an issue with corroded connections.
 

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
That's just headlights though, right? I'm not looking to change my headlights as my H4s are doing a brilliant (haha) job.

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Great question, from what I know, they are not - if you replace incandescent bulbs with them. I suspect much like bike lights in the 90s, when LEDs were illegal, the law will come round and the Police will exercise their discretion depending on who they are and what the situation is.

I haven’t done it yet, but when I tested my indicators with LEDs, I found they were way more visible and strangely not because of brightness but because of the LED response times being faster, you get brighter longer flashes. A traditional bulb has to warm up to full brightness. An LED is at max lumens virtually the instant it comes on.

Here’s a video of a comparison test of the indicators with a white LED - for best results use the same colour LED as the lens.


On that note, it’s been proven that for the same reason as above, LED brake lamps provide a fraction of a second better response time for the drivers following, so in fact they are even safer.

Also, I went with this flasher unit - unfortunately, being made of solid state electronics it doesn’t click, but I could never hear the old one over my exhaust / engine anyway. But at least it doesn’t buzz like other motorbike ones. The beauty of this one is that you can have a mix of LED and incandescent bulbs without the flash rate changing or overloading the electronics; if you choose to do it in stages. Or if an LED bulb blows out on and all you can find is the traditional bulbs. You can buy others with an adjustable flash rate.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143630232190

4bcdb9bab33b21d7fb8fcd63e30b08f0.jpg


I spent a small fortune experimenting with LED bulbs from eBay, Alibaba etc and most were utterly useless in brightness / beam angle, some burned out within minutes of use (probably why they were 50p each) and some just plain didn’t work or flickered / flashed. Buy a reputable brand from a place where you can return them to in the UK.

@Huw found a good UK supplier I believe.

The wiring in the places I have used LED bulbs no longer feels warm / hot to the touch. So there’s another benefit for peace of mind on 40+ year old wiring, more headroom for alternator, oh and that extra 0.5 BHP! ;)

It’s also worth discussing with your insurance company to ensure it doesn’t become a get out of jail free card for them should the worst happen. I have declared all my mods and Classicline have been cool with them. Even my LED headlight bulbs.

On the topic of LED headlights, EU law requires them to have washers and self levelling mechanisms, UK law is more vague. MOT testers generally (some do depending on the person testing on the day) don’t care as long as the beam pattern is correct and they are not overly bright. I decided that seeing more than 5m ahead was worth it to me and the LED bulbs in H4 lenses have transformed my night driving!!! In three years of using them, no one has yet flashed me coming the other way + I have been stopped by the police at night a number of times, to admire the car(!!) and not a word said about the headlights. Just how nice the car looks and sounds!

f2dd6dc30f72229cbf9a80b6900a7cc9.jpg
60632e77597f0010fbcc4343556aa953.jpg


Finally, the taste police will ‘ave ya, as they are not classic looking enough, so be prepared to be slain in some circles!!! ;)

I must get off the loo now, my legs are going numb!
 
Last edited:

skinjim

Club Member
Great question, from what I know, they are not - if you replace incandescent bulbs with them. I suspect much like bike lights in the 90s, when LEDs were illegal, the law will come round and the Police will exercise their discretion depending on who they are and what the situation is.

I haven’t done it yet, but when I tested my indicators with LEDs, I found they were way more visible and strangely not because of brightness but because of the LED response times being faster, you get brighter longer flashes. A traditional bulb has to warm up to full brightness. An LED is at max lumens virtually the instant it comes on.

Here’s a video of a comparison test of the indicators with a white LED - for best results use the same colour LED as the lens.


On that note, it’s been proven that for the same reason as above, LED brake lamps provide a fraction of a second better response time for the drivers following, so in fact they are even safer.

Also, I went with this flasher unit - unfortunately, being made of solid state electronics it doesn’t click, but I could never hear the old one over my exhaust / engine anyway. But at least it doesn’t buzz like other motorbike ones. The beauty of this one is that you can have a mix of LED and incandescent bulbs without the flash rate changing or overloading the electronics; if you choose to do it in stages. Or if an LED bulb blows out on and all you can find is the traditional bulbs. You can buy others with an adjustable flash rate.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143630232190

4bcdb9bab33b21d7fb8fcd63e30b08f0.jpg


I spent a small fortune experimenting with LED bulbs from eBay, Alibaba etc and most were utterly useless in brightness / beam angle, some burned out within minutes of use (probably why they were 50p each) and some just plain didn’t work or flickered / flashed. Buy a reputable brand from a place where you can return them to in the UK.

@Huw found a good UK supplier I believe.

The wiring in the places I have used LED bulbs no longer feels warm / hot to the touch. So there’s another benefit for peace of mind on 40+ year old wiring, more headroom for alternator, oh and that extra 0.5 BHP! ;)

It’s also worth discussing with your insurance company to ensure it doesn’t become a get out of jail free card for them should the worst happen. I have declared all my mods and Classicline have been cool with them. Even my LED headlight bulbs.

On the topic of LED headlights, EU law requires them to have washers and self levelling mechanisms, UK law is more vague. MOT testers generally (some do depending on the person testing on the day) don’t care as long as the beam pattern is correct and they are not overly bright. I decided that seeing more than 5m ahead was worth it to me and the LED bulbs in H4 lenses have transformed my night driving!!! In three years of using them, no one has yet flashed me coming the other way + I have been stopped by the police at night a number of times, to admire the car(!!) and not a word said about the headlights. Just how nice the car looks and sounds!

f2dd6dc30f72229cbf9a80b6900a7cc9.jpg
60632e77597f0010fbcc4343556aa953.jpg


Finally, the taste police will ‘ave ya, as they are not classic looking enough, so be prepared to be slain in some circles!!! ;)

I must get off the loo now, my legs are going numb!
Yeah, the old 'bog post' is a killer for your circulation [emoji1787] Thanks for all the info, like I say I'm quite happy with my headlights as they are for now, but I'll definitely look into upgrading everything else. Especially my reverse lights, I'm pretty sure the ones I have are just two fireflies in a translucent box. Are your tail lights LED too? If so, how do you find them? Mine are quite dim but I hate following people with obnoxious tail lights

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Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
I would certainly improve the earthing at the rear of the car - it is woeful. My 240 relied on a single earth by the fuel tank sender.
 

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Yeah, the old 'bog post' is a killer for your circulation [emoji1787] Thanks for all the info, like I say I'm quite happy with my headlights as they are for now, but I'll definitely look into upgrading everything else. Especially my reverse lights, I'm pretty sure the ones I have are just two fireflies in a translucent box. Are your tail lights LED too? If so, how do you find them? Mine are quite dim but I hate following people with obnoxious tail lights

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My reverse lights are LED and plenty bright enough but I have to say, they aren’t that much better than my original bulbs that were in there. I’ve always found the reversing lights really good, so it would pay to heed Rob’s advice on earthing. Also check the bulbs aren’t past their best.

Half my tail lights are LED. ;)

The single filament ones behind the reflectors are LED and are no brighter than the incandescent bulbs replaced, but less than 1/4 of the current. My key aim is to beong down the load on the wiring. The 21/5 bulbs are still old school as I found the LED ones I had ordered (Alibaba special) to be less bright with the brake on than the old fashioned bulbs.

If your headlights are good, then leave them that way and do the relay conversion to protect your stalk contacts. Mine were fried when I bought the car.

I have to say, my father in law’s classics have superb light from H4 halogens with the 50% extra bright bulbs from Halfords; since he relayed them. It stands to reason, especially if you consider that my headlights are getting 1.3v less than the battery volts through the 43 year old wiring and contacts etc. It should be loosing 0.2v through healthy wiring.
 

MCBladeRun

Club Member
Thought I'd chime in and say, I got my LEDs from classiccarleds.co.uk. They're UK based, helpful, and their website is easy to navigate.

They list the bulbs for application first (side light, indicate etc) then the bulb fitting / socket type. They do this so they give you an LED with the right amount of output.

Your original post sounds like a faulty flasher unit for sure, and like others have said, go with an LED upgrade as it doesn't rely on a mechanism to work.

I've always wondered myself how a flasher unit can flash slow or fast depending on the problem. A quick Google search reveals that both can be a bulb out. But since that's not the problem in your case, definitely try a new flasher unit, they're not too expensive anyhow.
 

skinjim

Club Member
Thought I'd chime in and say, I got my LEDs from classiccarleds.co.uk. They're UK based, helpful, and their website is easy to navigate.

They list the bulbs for application first (side light, indicate etc) then the bulb fitting / socket type. They do this so they give you an LED with the right amount of output.

Your original post sounds like a faulty flasher unit for sure, and like others have said, go with an LED upgrade as it doesn't rely on a mechanism to work.

I've always wondered myself how a flasher unit can flash slow or fast depending on the problem. A quick Google search reveals that both can be a bulb out. But since that's not the problem in your case, definitely try a new flasher unit, they're not too expensive anyhow.
That website looks great, thanks! It looks like they even do a replacement flasher unit with a clicking sound, I think I'd miss the clicking [emoji4]

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