Reshelling Topics (Edited)

This where the problems come in.
To the unsuspecting public it may be to all intents and purposes be a 240z but if it ever came to auction I wonder what legal recourse the purchser would have.
The best practice in my mind would be for cars to be identified by the shell type as this is the major component.
I think this would be the best for the marque as a whole and would certainly push up the prices for cars like Robs which are original.

I have nothing against re-shelling cars, sh*t that is what I would do if forced to!


I know of a '240Z' on a '72 plate that is actually a 280Z. A very 'sound' car bodily and mechanically but.....
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Just so every ones clear..........
I have not seen many of the different types of conversions and if I have unintentionally upset anyone that was not my purpose, I am genuinely interested in this thread................

Anyway Rob is the 280Z shell the same as a 240Z shell?
I don't mean little differences which the more educated will know about, I mean can you bolt up everything from a 240 onto a 280 shell??
I know the views of some forum members love to keep the history of the car, so some want the American logbook as they think the bulkhead vin/chassis etc is the most important, but I also know people who want the uk part of the history kept at all costs.
You can't say who is right or wrong on a personal level but peoples wants are definitely different are they not??
 
To the unsuspecting public it may be to all intents and purposes be a 240z but if it ever came to auction I wonder what legal recourse the purchser would have.
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Andrew, How many 'unsuspecting' members of the public do you reckon by a 240 in this country?
My point being, if a co. carries out a reshell/bulkhead swap then the car will run into tens of thousands of pounds to buy when finished. The customer and co. selling are both aware of everything so no sneaky stuff going on. I have never heard of anyone doing this sort of major restoration and banging it on ebay in the hope of fooling the end customer.
Thoughts?

The best practice in my mind would be for cars to be identified by the shell type as this is the major component.
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I asked this question before................

How many 240 shells still have the oe shell??

Rob has managed to bag one but most have new floors, boot areas, rear quarters if your lucky even replacement roofs.
At which point does it stop being the original shell??
 
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Throttleton said:
Anyway Rob is the 280Z shell the same as a 240Z shell?
I don't mean little differences which the more educated will know about, I mean can you bolt up everything from a 240 onto a 280 shell??
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Well for one the rear light clusters fit in the body totally different. The structure of the car is substantially different as well. A 240 door won't fit the latch mechanism is different. And as far as the 280 goes I no jack about them. Not sure the dash would fit either.
 
Rob, Steve thank you for returning the thread. It might be worth removing my other one though.
 
MaximG, you mentioned a few of the little differences............
What is substantially different structure wise?
 
Hi Craig
I was one of those unsuspecting! and I ain't no dummy!!
I was thinking not about the fists or even second new owner but further into the future.
Basically a 240 and 280 chassis are going to be substantially different, similar but different, eg chassis rails, floorpans etc
 
Throttleton said:
MaximG, you mentioned a few of the little differences............
What is substantially different structure wise?
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Well personally replacing the rear panel that the lights fix to is hardly a small difference. Bumper mounts completely different. The door jam it self would have to be cut out the body and changed. There is a fundamental difference that the 260 & 280 share in that the 240 has air tubes in the inner wing that were done away with in the later versions. The list goes on and as I say I know very little about these cars compared to some.
 
Well personally replacing the rear panel that the lights fix to is hardly a small difference.
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That's what I mean, replacing that panel to you is a major difference but to me it's trivial.
I'm trying to word this so as not to upset, but if I had Mr Gaskins new car which is totally oe in every respect as far as we/he knows I would go out of my way to keep it that way but if the car is past that point oe wise but basically fine I wouldn't be bothered at all about poaching parts to keep the car on the road, as long as you don't tell lies when you come to sell.
 
I think it would be quite easy to trick a non S30 expert into buying a US shelled car and thinking it was a UK car.

The obvious giveaway to the uninitiated should be the lack of rust and repair. After that you have to know what you are looking for.

As a matter of interest do we know how easy it is to do the same things with a Triumph TR , E Type, early MG etc

The other aspect of US conversions is the rise in the number of cars in the UK. Is this seen as a good thing or not with such a rare car? Does anybody know how many RHD US cars are on our roads, as a Club should we care?

By the way did anybody see that LHD US 240Z Auto on ebay recently. It was in Aberdeenshire, looked a lovely car - now that I wonder how that will end up?
 
If a car is badly crash damaged where the shell is not repairable, then that car is no more. Think an eight year old Corsa where the scrap yard has stripped the useable parts from it and crushed the shell?

So in my opinion, if a car has rotted so much that the shell is not repairable then that car is also gone. The rest of the car can be stripped off and put on an imported shell, but that car should carry the imported car's identity and the old shell's identity goes to rusty heaven.

I really like the fact that my car is chassis thirty and may well be the oldest 260z in the country. If I was to reshell it then I would no longer regard it in the same way, so why should that be different to any other car.

And to add, I'd be right p**sed off if I bought a 240z and later found out it to be a 260z or a 280z!
 
If a car is badly crash damaged where the shell is not repairable, then that car is no more. Think an eight year old Corsa where the scrap yard has stripped the useable parts from it and crushed the shell?
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Dale I totally get the Corsa point defo.

If you had a 240 worth a nominal amount say 7k to 8k and some one side swipped the rear quarter, Mashed the rear wing, bent the rear floor etc then an insurance co would as you say write it off.
My point is there are members on here that could repair the car to perfection.
Not repairable is an 'insurance co's term' is it not?
Why can't that car be fixed?

I do agree if you bought a 240 and were not told it was a 280 then aggro would commence but like I said it's a hell of a lot of work and lies to try and pass it off as a 240 when you could be honest and you could still sell it as a great restored car.
 
I think it would be quite easy to trick a non S30 expert into buying a US shelled car and thinking it was a UK car.

The obvious giveaway to the uninitiated should be the lack of rust and repair. After that you have to know what you are looking for.
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Rob that's a comment worth thinking about also.........
If you are buying the car because you want the real history and the seller hasn't mentioned it then you can look at it as a scam.
The other way of looking at it is.................
Oh no! I've been conned into buying a really good condition car when I expected it to be rotten!
 
I'd say the view on my car is the reason I have that opinion. The VIN is one of things that is special to me. If I had to reshell it (say using your example after an accident), to me, it would no longer be the same car and it would be that of the shell it is then bolted to.

Cars have to have an identity, whether that be the legal reasons of keeping track of a car for legal ownership, safety MOT reasons, road licence reasons etc, so what part should be the part that is identifiable? It has to be something substantial.

If you want to buy an historic car (that is obviously more expensive than the next non-historic version) but it has been reshelled and over the years a replacement engine, replacement wings etc since the 'historic' event/s, then should the original car still be regarded as still in existence if the original VIN has been swapped? And is it worth any more than a replica?
 
so what part should be the part that is identifiable? It has to be something substantial.
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Good answer Dale:)

I've asked numerous times on this thread the same question.
I understand if you reshell the car the history is different but is it only different if you reshell in one go or you replace all the shell over the years by repairing/replacing parts and at the end you don't have the oe shell anymore but cling to the little number on the bulkhead?
I wouldn't be bothered either way but it's interesting to hear a divided opinion.
 
Out of interest, is there somewhere you can get the build information of you car, ie chassis nr, engine nr and any other relevant specs? So can you check what your original engine nr was for your car?

An example is for a 911 , you can get a Certificate of Authenticity from Porsche, with the engine, chassis and gearbox nrs plus the various options it was produced with.
 
I'd say the view on my car is the reason I have that opinion. The VIN is one of things that is special to me. If I had to reshell it (say using your example after an accident), to me, it would no longer be the same car and it would be that of the shell it is then bolted to.
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Just re-read.........

I didn't mean a reshell after an accident I meant a repair.

Dale if your car was side swiped and written off by the ins.co would you scrap it knowing the ins.co would have problems repairing it or would you be happy to have you or a club/forum/specialist repair it properly and you keep your vin and keep the car
Would you go the corsa route and scap it because the ins co. says so??
 
Here's an interesting angle:

My 'old' Datsun became part of the family and developed a character over the years. The body was not the best and had been bodged by the previous owner. I put some of it right but not all and I always had the idea in the back of my mind that if it was damaged I would reshell it with a US shell. I was tempted on a couple of occassions to buy shells I saw but I thought if I do it now I might 'total' it next time out - better waiting to see what happens.

However another thing that stopped me was that it wouldn't be the same car again and I wouldn't have the memories. However it was the mechanical bits that gave it it's character and got me round Le Mans, Spa etc etc.

So if I reshelled it should I keep the bulkhead and VIN? After all the rest of the car has nothing to do with the VIN on the US shell and to give it the identity of perhaps an Auto US standard 240Z that hadn't been on a single race track would have been a shame. The other aspect was that it still had it's original engine however it was only probably the block number to be honest!

There were very few genuine 'factory' 240Z components on the car in the end.

These cars have a soul - is that soul tied to the VIN, engine number, mechanicals or something else?
 
As the cars keep going up in value I'll imagine that lots of Old UK cars start appearing wearing amazing bodywork/chassis.

Rob - I did see that auto, it looked really nice and would be an ideal candidate to fix/mot/register here in the UK. Hows your new old girl coming on?

The problem is that with the 240z being a Monocoque its not the same as some old british **** that had a ladder chassis with a tub bolted on top.

Maybe we should go though the buyers guide giving details on how to spot bits that should be on each and every car along with their respective unique identifying parts?

IMO once a cars beyond repair you should sell off any useable parts and start again. Applying the same number plates to a previously registered Monocoque isn't really cricket for the cars next owner unless you're 100% honest.
 
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