new wheels

[SeanDezart]

Hang on lets just check
mutters, taps calculator 15 - 1 = 14 ....... yep I make that a 14lb saving

Can you spare me the maths lesson in future then - kinda came across as a pi*s-take

Economic ? How much for a carbon roof then ? A second-hand good roof to weld in might cost £200.

 

[zedhead260]

A second-hand good roof to weld in might cost £200.

It might; but I'd like to know how you come to that figure, or are you just guessing ?

Cost of second hand roof £100-ish)
Labour to remove skin from old roof
Labour to remove skin from existing roof
Fit and prep 'new' skin
Paint

Hmmmm..£200 seems a little light, but I guess it depends on who's doing it, how good the job is and how long it will last.

 

[SeanDezart]

Not guessing - I sold one a few weeks ago and have adjusted prices as UK prices are less (more parts available) !
Waiting to hear how much for a C.F one plus costs of :

Labour to remove skin from old roof
Labour to remove skin from existing roof
Fit and prep 'new' skin
Paint

Do people replace the whole roof or just the skin when fitting a 240Z steel roof ?

 

[SKiddell]

Sean

Can you spare me the maths lesson in future then - kinda came across as a pi*s-take

I cant win can I , you couldnt see where the weight savings came from , so I thought I would demonstrate (plus I used to get into trouble at school for not showing the workings out )

BTW If you can get a roof skin, the old one off, new one on, prepped and painted for £200 then your a better man than I am gungerdin

Read Phils words again

 

[SeanDezart]

the carbon roof is definitely an economic alternative even if you have no sunroof

Call me sceptical but prove it....please !

There aint no winning Steve and you don't need to stoop to sarcasm to make your weight-saving point.

Labour to remove skin from old roof
Labour to remove skin from existing roof
Fit and prep 'new' skin
Paint

It comes down the difference (economically speaking) between the price of a second-hand original roof-skin (quoted by the expert at £100) and a C.F. one at a price unknown.

Or, if I'm missing something, please stoop down and assist - thanks

 

[SKiddell]

It comes down the difference (economically speaking) between the price of a second-hand original roof-skin (quoted by the expert at £100) and a C.F. one at a price unknown.

Or, if I'm missing something, please stoop down and assist - thanks

Yep I do think you are missing the point a little, no in fact by a mile.

1. A CF "skin" can be fitted by anyone, its glued on, heck even I can do it.

2. A new/secondhand steel roof skin has to be taken off by someone with skills (few people brave enough) ....Skills cost money

3. Once the old roof is off, a new/secondhand steel roof skin has to be fitted by someone with skills (few people brave enough).... Skills cost money

4. Once fitted, a new/secondhand steel roof has to be prepped, by someone with skills.... prepping cost money

5. A new/secondhand steel roof skin has to be painted, .... Painting cost money

6. A CF roof skin doesnt have painted


Ergo the CF roof skin is a cheaper and lighter alternative (as covered in previous post)

Hopefully that should explain away your doubts/concerns without a hint of sarcasm whatsoever

Oh and by the way Mr moral high ground

you don't need to stoop to sarcasm

Why not when you do it all of the time

(quoted by the expert at £100)

Or, if I'm missing something, please stoop down and assist - thanks

Nice one, those two posts are both sarcastic and patronising.

 

[SeanDezart]

Hopefully that should explain away your doubts/concerns without a hint of sarcasm whatsoever.

It does, and I have no doubts/concerns......just honest questions and I still have no roof-skin price to compare against !

Oh and by the way Mr moral high ground

you don't need to stoop to sarcasm

Why not when you do it all of the time.

I haven't for some time - gotta have a break but you haven't seen that with those big blinkers on. That's it is it ? Sean is now rubber-stamped for ever more as 'just' a wind-up merchant ? Sure, now and again we have some fun -

Or, if I'm missing something, please stoop down and assist - thanks .

Tongue in cheek mate between us but still inferring that you have the high ground (knowing what you're talking about) whilst I'm the one still in class, asking questions.......

(quoted by the expert at £100).

Rob has been stripping cars for years and handled/handles the For Sale list - I judge him THE expert !

Or, if I'm missing something, please stoop down and assist - thanks .

Tongue in cheek


Nice one, those two posts are both sarcastic and patronising.

Apologies that it came across as patronising - although I acknowledge you as THE expert : 15 - 1 = 14

Can we move on now please and not take all my posts as wind-ups ? Switch the 'spam-filter' on !

 

[240z]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 240z
the carbon roof is definitely an economic alternative even if you have no sunroof


Call me sceptical but prove it....please !

Well, when I get my car, I'll happily show you my receipts for prep and paint for the roof and quarters, even by dividing by three, I think it'll still make the carbon roof attractive.. of course it all depends on how fussy you are, the problem is that all panels will need a skim to make them totally smooth, and to get it right takes time (and money). If I could have lived with a few high spots here and there, and just paid for a primer/topcoat it would have been a lot cheaper..

 

[SKiddell]

The cost of the carbon roof depends on the finish required

For instance, If you want to paint it then the surface will not need to be prepped (gel coated/ laquering etc) to anwhere near the same stadard as it would if you wanted to expose the bare carbon fibre.

So effecively you end up with 2 price structures, as mine was a prototype these figures are somewhat of a guestimate

Budget on around £600 for a fully finished just "Sikaflex" on skin.... or £350 - £400 for a skin to be over painted.

Now compare that with the cost to fit a new steel skin (forget weight savings for now)

Source skin £100
Remove old skin (windsceen out etc), 6 hours @ £35/hour
Fit new skin 5 hours @£35/hour
Prep say 3 hours @£35/hour
Paint say 3 hours @ £35/hour
Windscreen back in, say 2 hours @£35

Materials (paint, filler, etc) say £75, I didnt include a new head lining as the CF skin would need one as well

Now I make that over £800 +vat, my figures may be a little out but they wont be a mile off

 

[Wes]

What type of glue do you use to bond Carbon Fibre,
and you missed the bit where a new steel roof needs lead loading just to add to the costs.

Wes

 

[SKiddell]

What type of glue do you use to bond Carbon Fibre,
and you missed the bit where a new steel roof needs lead loading just to add to the costs.

The type of bond needed to be somewhat pliable (expansion/contraction), definitely permanent, gap/cavity filling, waterproof and temperature resistant (summer and winter extreams), so a polyeurthane adhesive seemed appropriate.

When researching it, I looked at several car manufacturers who already bond many of their components on (trim, spoilers, bumpers even wings etc) several manufacturers, bond roof sections in place to automotive standards using one of the "Sikaflex" products (check out their website http://www.sikaindustry.com/ind/ipd-transoem-roof), so my thought process was "if it works for them"

I use Tiger seal (very similar to Sikaflex) once cured it is very pliable but has high shear and tear propeties has good heat resistance (hot sunny days can melt other contact adhesives) in fact it is nastiest, stickiest, gooiest substance I have ever come across, took me days to get it off my hands .

The roof has been in place for a year now with no signs of lamination or separation from the bonding, it has endured torrential downpours, countless 1/4 mile dashes, a spirited drive around Coomb and many motorway/dual carriageway dashes (at or below the UK legal limit of course )

I even used a glazier’s suction handle attached to my overhead hoist monted to an RSJ in my garage to try and pull the roof off .

Wes, Yes I did miss the lead loading out but as you said that just increases the steel cost further.

 

[SeanDezart]

The cost of the carbon roof depends on the finish required

For instance, If you want to paint it then the surface will not need to be prepped (gel coated/ laquering etc) to anwhere near the same stadard as it would if you wanted to expose the bare carbon fibre.

So effecively you end up with 2 price structures, as mine was a prototype these figures are somewhat of a guestimate

Budget on around £600 for a fully finished just "Sikaflex" on skin.... or £350 - £400 for a skin to be over painted.

Now compare that with the cost to fit a new steel skin (forget weight savings for now)

Source skin £100
1. Remove old skin (windsceen out etc), 6 hours @ £35/hour
2. Fit new skin 5 hours @£35/hour
3. Prep say 3 hours @£35/hour
4. Paint say 3 hours @ £35/hour
5. Windscreen back in, say 2 hours @£35

6. Materials (paint, filler, etc) say £75, I didnt include a new head lining as the CF skin would need one as well

Now I make that over £800 +vat, my figures may be a little out but they wont be a mile off

Trying not to insist but aren't 1 through 5 necessary too when fitting a C.F. roof skin ?

I'm trying to learn (honest) and I already accept that there is a weight-loss which for some will justify the price difference (£100 against 350 - 400) but how less preperation does a C.F. version need ? And how much is the 'glue' ?

Yours patiently

 

[SKiddell]

Trying not to insist but aren't 1 through 5 necessary too when fitting a C.F. roof skin ?

1 was

remove old skin (windsceen out etc), 6 hours @ £35/hour

The CF skin (maybe I should call it a cap) fits directly on top of the old skin thus negating its removal.

5 was

Windscreen back in, say 2 hours @£35

Seeing as the windscreen never came out in the first place ...it doesnt need to go back in

how less preperation does a C.F. version need

neither requires ANY prep, they come either fully dressed in all its carbon glory ready to display to the world OR prepped ready to paint directly on top of.......thats the differance between the £600 version and the £400 version

And how much is the 'glue' ?

10 quid if I remember correctly


Think of it as a very expensive vinyl roof that actually serves a purpose instead of just looking err "differant"

 

[SeanDezart]

1 was

The CF skin (maybe I should call it a cap) fits directly on top of the old skin thus negating its removal.

Think of it as a very expensive vinyl roof that actually serves a purpose instead of just looking err "differant"

Thanks for the clarification.

Err, if the C.F. skin fits directly on top of the original skin, what is the advantage for those who don't have sunroofs to hide ? And don't they 'gain' 1 lb - albeit not a lot ?

 

[SKiddell]

Err, if the C.F. skin fits directly on top of the original skin, what is the advantage for those who don't have sunroofs to hide ? And don't they 'gain' 1 lb - albeit not a lot ?

Err there isnt one, I never said there was
This "alternative" is designed as an option to people who have sunroofs and would like an alternative to "major" surgery...the added bonus is,

Its lighter
Its DIY
It looks cool (subjective)
Its something differant (rare in the S30 world where a differant shade orange airbox is considered radical)


I guess that none sunroof owners could cut a big hole in their roofs and then stick the CF skin on to cover it up.....but thats just plain silly

Hey I've got it, guys with solid roof could cut out the sunroof section fit a CF skin on and sell the cut out section to those that have sunroofs to weld in.....blimey, thats a sure fire, diamond bullet through the brain moment of genius....can't possibly fail

 

[SeanDezart]

sounds like a good idea, How much steve?

I didn't think he had a sun-roof ?

I know you never said there was an advantage for non sun-roof owners !

Anyway, getting back to the topic - these are mine and I love their simpleness. No fussy lines on the car - same thing with the wheels !

Hope Castle Coombe was fun and that yet again the Zs gave the establishment a jolly good thrashing

 

[twoforty]

Thats what I thought when I dove 800 miles to look at the car!

 

[SeanDezart]

Arh - it all appears clear now ! Problems of distance and reliance upon 'just' the forum and photos ! I really need to get over and see / meet more people and cars !

 

[twoforty]

More trouble
I started to cut the old arches out today, I knew there would be some filler but I didn't expect the whole inner arch to be made from fibreglass. Oh well out comes the mig again!

 

[spyro]

One question about the CF roofs... how are they for safety?

if one cuts out the old roof, surely it needs some reinforcement.