lowering spring slop

[morbias]

'All the way' would be nice, and I see where you (Rob) and datsfun are coming from but time and money are becoming ever more of a deciding factor. The lowering springs were supposed to be the easy option, then I could decide what size wheels and tyres I would go for, if I was going to go with flares or not, then do that along with the bodywork and so on. The weather is now pretty poor for doing body repairs, the garage isn't the best, so that's going to have to wait a while now. I also need to do a compression test on the engine but I was hoping to have the suspension sorted before putting the exhaust back on so I could get the engine up to running temperature without filling the garage with smoke and fumes.

Everything leads on to everything else, and bearing in mind I don't get much time to work on the car nowadays my motivation to get this finished is diminishing rapidly.

 

[morbias]

YES. Look at post #12 in this thread.

Look at post #13 in this thread where I asked for verification.

The point I'm trying to make ( in laboriously typing out all those specs from the factory service manual for the UK & European '260Z' variants ) is that knowing the OEM spring lengths will enable you to understand the springs you originally had. As far as I can see, they are your only positive datum points at this time.

Yes, it appears so if the strut tubes are different.

The reason I'm making the point that the term "240Z lowering springs" is meaningless is because there's not one single model of "240Z" and there was big variation in both springs and struts ( strut differences included different length tubes and different lower spring perch heights ).

In which case, how can spring manufacturers (Eibach, Tokico) sell lowering springs for '240z & 74 260z' and not have a mountain of returned parts that don't fit?

How can you know how to get where you want to go if you don't know where you are?

That was the entire point of having them made by a specialist company. First time around they told Mike they had the correct specs. In their defence Mike suggested I send the springs off the car but I didn't as I wasn't sure if I was going to have to move it anytime soon but they came up with 'correct specs' so Mike authorised manufacture. After that was a disaster I sent both my front springs and one of my rears as was requested to start with and they still got it completely wrong.

I've never looked in a Haynes manual for the cars, but I'm surprised yours lists the "US" spring data. Is it the Haynes manual for the "US" models, then? No wonder you are confused ( and I am too.... ).

The Haynes book says nothing about being specific to any particular market, but it lists
HLS30-U
HLS 30
HS3OU
RLS30OU
RLS30UN
RLS30AU
RLS30AUN

none of which match my RS30. Seeing as most specs anywhere are per the US model and there is only one spring spec in the Haynes, I assume it is likely a US spec.

So ( unless its a secret ) what are the coil counts and free lengths of the 'original' springs that came off your car, and what are the ( Nissan ) part numbers on your front and rear strut tubes?

I could only find one spring in the storage room as it's pitch black, and there's no light in there. The spring has 10.65 coils and is 15" long.

Where are the part numbers on the strut tubes, I don't remember seeing any?

I wasn't saying it defintely was, just that it's something that should be taken into account. I can understand your frustration, but please don't throw good information, given with good intent, back in the faces of people who are trying to help you.

I'm not 'throwing it back in the faces of people who are trying to help', if you expect me to blindly follow everything anyone says on the internet without question then what? It's not like I started by calling your post 'depressing'...

 

[SeanDezart]

Why isn't Mr F involved in this thread ?

 

[Albrecht]

Where are the part numbers on the strut tubes, at the bottom inside the ball joint cavity?

They are stamped into the strut tubes themselves, on the faces pointing out from the car. You can't miss them if you clean the crud off.......

I'm not 'throwing it back in the faces of people who are trying to help', if you expect me to blindly follow everything anyone says on the internet without question then what? It's not like I started by calling your post 'disappointing'...

But you are asking for help at the same time as proclaiming that you "don't care" about one aspect of the whole situation which may yet turn out to be a vital point.

Despite that I still bothered to open a factory service manual which covers your model, sat down and typed out a load of hard data for you. I don't live or die on your thanks, but a simple word of appreciation for the effort would be nice.....

 

[morbias]

He's probably waiting for me to talk to him on the phone first before saying anything, I haven't phoned him since Sunday as I want to give him a chance to talk to the manufacturer.

If it comes across as if I deliberately posted this up to complain about MJP and Mike, I want to make it clear I'm not at all. This thread started off all because I've heard about lowering springs having a certain amount of gap when fitted, I didn't realise the gap should be much less than it is. And then of course I put the back suspension on the car...

Mike's helped me out a lot and I'm sure this situation is a big pain in the backside for him too; he's had to go back and discuss this again with the manufacturer and pay return shipping already, and as the front and rear springs were sent back separately, I voluntarily paid for it the second time. In my opinion it should really be the spring manufacturer covering the expense as this is quite clearly (in my opinion) their cock up but maybe there are some business politics involved.

 

[morbias]

They are stamped into the strut tubes themselves, on the faces pointing out from the car. You can't miss them if you clean the crud off.......

There are no visible part numbers at all, I don't know how deep the stamping is but maybe it corroded away.

But you are asking for help at the same time as proclaiming that you "don't care" about one aspect of the whole situation which may yet turn out to be a vital point.

You are missing out the bit where I said 'if there are no difference in the struts between countries', the keyword being 'if'

Despite that I still bothered to open a factory service manual which covers your model, sat down and typed out a load of hard data for you. I don't live or die on your thanks, but a simple word of appreciation for the effort would be nice.....

Well in that case be assured that I am grateful for any information on the subject, but realise it's hard to express gratitude to someone who seems to enjoy pointing out how dumb some of us are.

 

[SeanDezart]

It certainly shouldn't be you paying any return - surely ?

 

[morbias]

It certainly shouldn't be you paying any return - surely ?

I agree, not sure on why it isn't the responsibility of the manufacturer but Mike had already paid return on the front springs so I said I'd pay return on the rears as it's not fair that he loses out twice.

 

[SeanDezart]

You're a nice bloke - if I was Mike, I'd be claiming from the supplier !

You still appear to be subsidising the suppliers' mistake (s).........oh ok, I'll leave.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Morbias, no it doesn't come across as a complaint against MJP at all.

In fact it's useful information for folks doing the same as you. If this can be sorted it could save a lot of aggro for others.

You would think that the manufacturer would want to know all they could about various models of S30 so that they could offer a better service.

 

[Albrecht]

There are no visible part numbers at all, I don't know how deep the stamping is but maybe it corroded away.

They are usually still visible even with pretty bad corrosion. See below pic for an example.

If you can at least establish what struts / legs you have on your car ( you never know - they may have been changed in the past ) then at least you will have one piece of bankable data to work from.

 

[Albrecht]

You are missing out the bit where I said 'if there are no difference in the struts between countries', the keyword being 'if'

We had already established that there WAS difference in struts ( and springs! ) between different models and different territories. There is no 'if' about it....

I can often be found complaining loudly that journalists either don't mention, or don't even know about the differences between sub variants and different market models. They write about "The 240Z" and "The 260Z" as though there was only one specification for each. This - combined with the domination of USA-centric data - reinforces the myths and fosters further mistakes. Episodes like your spring debacle demonstrate that the 'one size fits all' mindset is clearly mistaken.

Well in that case be assured that I am grateful for any information on the subject, but realise it's hard to express gratitude to someone who seems to enjoy pointing out how dumb some of us are.

It's a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it.

But seriously, you make it far too easy for me to look like I'm poking you with a stick through the bars of the cage. You don't even seem to be looking in the correct workshop manual for your car. However, I am at least trying to coax you along in the right direction ( I'm hoping that you'll seek out and buy a Nissan factory service manual for your car ) so hopefully there's a kind of method to my madness....

I could only find one spring in the storage room as it's pitch black, and there's no light in there. The spring has 10.65 coils and is 15" long.

But did it come off the front, or the rear.......?

At least you know - with a 15" free length ( allowing for some sag, as they are not new ) - that they are not the shorter ( when new ) free length springs from the data list that I gave you.

I'd be trying to reveal and identify the part numbers on the strut tubes now if I were you. With that data you could also at least rule out that you haven't got some weird combination of strut and spring going on.

 

[morbias]

They are usually still visible even with pretty bad corrosion. See below pic for an example.

If you can at least establish what struts / legs you have on your car ( you never know - they may have been changed in the past ) then at least you will have one piece of bankable data to work from.

I can't see a part number anywhere on either the front or rear struts I have.

We had already established that there WAS difference in struts ( and springs! ) between different models and different territories.

If you say so...

Episodes like your spring debacle demonstrate that the 'one size fits all' mindset is clearly mistaken.

But again, even if they had made the springs to one of the sets of specs listed there's no way there would be such a difference between front and rear, so this is more like 'this size fits none'.

you make it far too easy for me to look like I'm poking you with a stick through the bars of the cage.

Comments like that are exactly why you come across as having your head up your ****.

You don't even seem to be looking in the correct workshop manual for your car. However, I am at least trying to coax you along in the right direction

You are simply assuming I haven't looked for one, which would be incorrect.

But did it come off the front, or the rear.......?

At least you know - with a 15" free length ( allowing for some sag, as they are not new ) - that they are not the shorter ( when new ) free length springs from the data list that I gave you.

It was the off the rear, but i miscounted; there are 9.65 turns on it which doesn't seem to match any original spec. The front springs look like they have something like 10.35 turns and are virtually the same length.

 

[Albrecht]

I can't see a part number anywhere on either the front or rear struts I have.

Comments like that are exactly why you come across as having your head up your ****.

Up my arch? I already know the part numbers on my strut tubes, thanks.

I suggest you get your head down a bit closer to your strut tubes ( preferably armed with a wire brush ) and have another look.

 

[morbias]

It's pretty obvious your primary reason for posting is to massage your ridiculously enormous ego rather than out of a genuine desire to help.

So in future, why don't you do us both a favour and refrain from posting in any threads I start. I'd rather go without your 'help' than have to wade through the self-righteous pompous diatribe that makes up the main body of your posts.

 

[SeanDezart]

Arh, you have to take the rough with the smooth and look back and see that you have indeed obtained the info you needed............even if it wasn't presented in the form which you preferred.
Change your signature "idiot with hammer" - I think that you're inviting trouble !

 

[morbias]

Maybe that was a bit harsh but I'm sick of having to read through the smartassery that I'm then supposed to bow down and give thanks for.

I'm usually polite (no, really I am) and I'm very grateful to everyone that contributed suggestions towards helping me in this thread, but if someone decides to treat me like an a**hole then they will get the same in return.

@datsfun, I missed your post yesterday. I will definitely look into weld-on adjustables in the future but it's just not what I'm after right now, but thanks for the info regarding measurements. It's a good starting point for working out which way I would need to go with it.

 

[SeanDezart]

I don't think that you're rude - hell, you weren't even imaginative but merely frustrated and impatient.....and perhaps annoyed that it was all avoidable.

The forum is also here to discuss what one is GOING to do and get feedback ie before the event......then we all get the opportunity of saying 'told you so' !

 

[morbias]

I look forward to it, I'm sure there will be another opportunity for that, maybe not to do with springs but no doubt something will go wrong

Anyway, I measured the dimensions of my struts and they match the ones talked about here: 240Z Eibach Springs in 260Z

So at least I know that the front springs with the same specs as Eibach progressive lowering springs +1" will work, it's an option to think about but right now Mike is hooking me up with a set of springs that will hopefully do the job as originally intended.

 

[rahail240]

It's pretty obvious your primary reason for posting is to massage your ridiculously enormous ego rather than out of a genuine desire to help.

So in future, why don't you do us both a favour and refrain from posting in any threads I start. I'd rather go without your 'help' than have to wade through the self-righteous pompous diatribe that makes up the main body of your posts.

wow,morbias.
this gents 'pompous diatribe' is probably, no let me re-phrase, IS probably the most accurate data and information your EVER going to get from anyone during your zed ownership.

Lose him from these forums and with what info i've heard from other 'so-called experts' on this site the next generation of zed owners will think there cars were made in the nissan factory in sunderland and spike anderson was actually albert goertz love child !!

sorry i know it's not relevant to the thread.

ok i'm bent over boys......so give me what you've got!!