JDM please explain ??

rahail240

rahail240

Well-Known Forum User
i'm still only a few years into my s30's, so forgive my ignorance.
on recent topics, i keep hearing about this jdm phase and how anything branded as this will be frowned upon in later years and almost certainty in doomed depreciation compared to more 'so called' original factory examples.
the thing is, what's the difference between the two?
if one has o.e nissan fender mirrors ,like datsun daves and richie p's, and the other has the usual after market chrome summit style door mirrors.
or one has wolfrace slots and the other watanabes.
so are just talking the difference between u.k and the zed's homeland features?

i know sean has mentioned how unfashionable these will be in future years, but i just don't get it.
are we saying mr dezarts vitaloni mirrors and miniltes are more correct and more desirable now, and in the future ,than original equipment mirrors and watanabes, which the s30's raced on?

i may be missing something major here,so that's the whole point of my post.
 
I'd be interested in hearing opinions here as well,, as I really am not certain what it's all about to be honest ! :driving::thumbs:
 
Hi Rahail

Japanese Domestic Market

The description 'JDM' stands for a Japanese Car sold initially ( when new ) into it's home market, i.e. Japan. Nowadays termed 'Grey Imports' or several other expressions, they are not valued as highly by the modern trade as those supplied new to the UK maket. The same applies to Insurerers - they often decline to quote or add a premium to cover them. Lower initial values, yes, but in contrast, often much better condition examples but frequently not to the same high spec as per UK cars ( e.g. Leather trim,
etc.,). This is for modern Japanese manufactured stuff.

In the context of the S30/S31 series of 70's Classics, it makes not a scrap of difference to the car's market value whether or not it is a JDM example. When applied as a description of accessories such as wing mirrors, different wheels, etc., the adjective 'JDM' just suggests that these items are as per fitted to most Home Market cars - no more, no less.

A big distinction between Moderns & Classics in this respect.
 
There are several issues in your original post.

An original S30 JDM car here (I don't believe) will have any extra market value than almost any other Z except perhaps a ZG or 432 but even then those values won't be those the cars could fetch elsewhere.

They're so rare outside of Japan so rule them out of the equation.

The recent trend has been to use JDM 'look' exterior accessories (whether genuine, original equipment or modern re-fabs or modern copies) much spurred by the interest in Manga comic books and also engine swaps.

My opinion is that the European market (including and probably especially the UK) because of it's historical exposure to the 'standard shape in rallies and publicity (and Big Sam/HSCC racers etc) will place a higher value on standard bodyworked cars and those again with L series engines.

Hey, it's merely my opinion but I see it as thus starting with highest value (240Z) :

standard UK car
standard imported car with UK reg rhd
standard shelled but mechanically modded (possibly with roll-cage)
JDM look (genuine period parts)
JDM look (modern re-fab genuine period parts)
JDM look (modern after-market parts)

Then the same three but with Nissan engine swaps followed by other makes' engine swaps and lastly with V8 carbed swaps.

Where do UK bodied ZG kittted Zs fall ?
Have the two recent 2.8 turbo-fitted Zs sold and for how much ?

The closer a Z is to the standard look and the closer it remains to a classic look and not modern (much larger wheels, racing spoilers and other plastic add-ons) the higher the value the market will give it BUT that's only if you want to sell. It's the price on the day !

You, like me have made a Z in your preferred taste - enjoy it and stop worrying about sales 'cos they're all undervalued here and the difference between a nicely JDM-styled car, a standard-looking modded car and a nice but not concours standard Z is probably no more than £4k.
 
SeanDezart said:
Hey, it's merely my opinion but I see it as thus starting with highest value (240Z) :

standard UK car
standard imported car with UK reg rhd
standard shelled but mechanically modded (possibly with roll-cage)
JDM look (genuine period parts)
JDM look (modern re-fab genuine period parts)
JDM look (modern after-market parts)
Click to expand...

Thats a mine field quote sean.
 
i know sean has mentioned how unfashionable these will be in future years, but i just don't get it.
are we saying mr dezarts vitaloni mirrors and miniltes are more correct and more desirable now, and in the future ,than original equipment mirrors and watanabes, which the s30's raced on?
Click to expand...

I hope not. I do see what Sean is saying (kind of), but JDM models and parts, (for me) do have a better holding for me than Minilites or some of the more modern parts. If the history/model range of all the S30 is talked about as a whole, rather than country specific, the JDM models and parts fit nicely into the equation.
 
rallymanDP said:
In the context of the S30/S31 series of 70's Classics, it makes not a scrap of difference to the car's market value whether or not it is a JDM example.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ.

The overwhelming weight of evidence - looking at the world market - is that Japanese 'home' market models of S30-series Zs ( I hate the 'JDM' acronym ) change hands for more money than those of any other market.

'Lost' Japanese home market models ( often imported to the USA and UK by American armed forces personnel in the 70s & 80s ) have suffered in the past from being misidentified, misunderstood and even modified in attempts to obscure their 'Japanese-ness'. I think the tide has now turned somewhat, and such cars are being rescued. However, in the overall scheme of things, such cars probably still suffer from being 'lost' in a market that does not understand them....

Ian Patmore said:
If the history/model range of all the S30 is talked about as a whole, rather than country specific, the JDM models and parts fit nicely into the equation.
Click to expand...

Good point Ian, and it is clear that - at least up to now - one of the things holding back the S30-series Z range amongst its peers has been the fact that the Japanese market models were seen as somehow both inferior ( EG 'only' 2 litre engines ) and too exotic to count ( EG 'complex' Z432 etc ). You'd be forgiven for believing that the Z wasn't a Japanese car at all.

Oftentimes such thinking was popularised by markets that had supposedly 'superior' variants which featured 4-speed transmissions, tall diff ratios, mushy springing / damping and low ratio steering racks. So much for the 'sport' in sports car.....

Take the wider view - the full S30 'family' view - and the big picture looks a little bit different. It'll be nice when we can get past any questions of 'fashion', and have the Japanese home market models understood for what they are.


:)
 
Ian Patmore said:
If the history/model range of all the S30 is talked about as a whole, rather than country specific, the JDM models and parts fit nicely into the equation.
Click to expand...
Agreed but bear in mind that I was referring to JDM ‘look’ copies especially those with 17” wheels, low-profile tyres – in fact Devil-Z wannabes with plastic tacked on all corners, front wing mirrors etc

Albrecht said:
The overwhelming weight of evidence - looking at the world market - is that Japanese 'home' market models of S30-series Zs ( I hate the 'JDM' acronym ) change hands for more money than those of any other market.
Click to expand...
Albrecht said:

It'll be nice when we can get past any questions of 'fashion', and have the Japanese home market models understood for what they are.
Click to expand...


Absolutely agree with you re JDM values for ‘Japanese Home Market’ (JHM ? :rolleyes:) cars but referring to your words in bold – who’s going to help EVERYBODY get past any questions of fashion ?

Only by new awareness and press/public appreciation of the S30s will that come about – otherwise, they’re just another cheap to buy RWDrive sportscar seen occasionally at certain events.

Let the new era begin ;) !
 
Some Japanese home market cars just aint cheap at all...

Google Translate

If I am reading this correctly, which I might not be my Japanese is a bit rusty, then this car is for sale at a shade over six and a half million quid (880 Million Yen)!!!!!

Can't be right surely....
 
JK240 said:
If I am reading this correctly, which I might not be my Japanese is a bit rusty, then this car is for sale at a shade over six and a half million quid (880 Million Yen)!!!!!

Can't be right surely....
Click to expand...

You're right, you're wrong. Don't trust Google Translator.

The price is 8.8 million JPY ( 880 'Man' = 880 ten thousands ) and Google Translator can't seem to tell the difference between ten thousand and a million.....

So the asking price on that Fairlady Z432 is approx £68,000 at today's exchange rates. I've seen them at over 10 million before now.
 
Ahhh that makes a bit more sense then, although it's still far from what I would call cheap.. thanks.
 
SeanDezart said:
......but referring to your words in bold – who’s going to help EVERYBODY get past any questions of fashion ?

Only by new awareness and press/public appreciation of the S30s will that come about ..........

Let the new era begin ;) !
Click to expand...


I've been leading horses to water for what seems a long time now, but only a few of them take a drink.

Example: This month's Motor Sport ( August 2010 issue ) carries an article on the 'Datsun 240Z' by Richard Heseltine for his regular 'Classic Racing Cars' series. Richard asked me for some input whilst he was writing the article, and I pointed out - as I so often do - that what he was referring to as the 'Datsun 240Z' was really a whole family of variants at launch. The very first S30-series Z to be entered into an official race was not a 'Datsun 240Z', and the first S30-series Z to actually win an offically-sanctioned international race was not a 'Datsun 240Z' either. I think Richard took it on board, but I wonder whether the readers ever take it on board when the title of the article is 'Datsun 240Z' and - arguably - it might be better to title it 'S30-series Z'......? I believe nobody wants to do this for fear of 'confusing' the target readership.

He also gave an honourable mention - at my suggestion - to Hiroshi Yoshida and Kumeo Tamura in relation to the styling / design of the car. However, he also - somewhat inexplicably - attributed a large part to Yutaka Katayama whilst not mentioning Chief Designer ( the man who pulled it all together ) Yoshihiko Matsuo. I don't know how anybody can seriously think that Katayama had any real design or engineering input into the car ( he wasn't a stylist, he wasn't a designer, he wasn't an engineer, he didn't have the remit, and he wasn't there anyway... ) but he gets given the credit nonetheless. How can you fight against that...?



And Sean, I'm afraid any "New Era" exists largely in your head, and appears to be linked rather more strongly to your own business activities than anything else.....

;)
 
JK240 said:
Some Japanese home market cars just aint cheap at all...

Google Translate

If I am reading this correctly, which I might not be my Japanese is a bit rusty, then this car is for sale at a shade over six and a half million quid (880 Million Yen)!!!!!

Can't be right surely....
Click to expand...

OT

That car is utterly, utterly stunning, *he say's drooling on the keyboard*. There's a little bit of dirt on the foot rest though! ;) :D
 
Albrecht said:
I've been leading horses to water for what seems a long time now, but only a few of them take a drink.
Click to expand...
Yep but you've got to un-muzzle them as well my Count, convince them it's water and not sand.....which reminds me of a famous quote....;) !

Albrecht said:
I don't know how anybody can seriously think that Katayama had any real design or engineering input into the car ( he wasn't a stylist, he wasn't a designer, he wasn't an engineer, he didn't have the remit, and he wasn't there anyway... ) but he gets given the credit nonetheless. How can you fight against that...?
Click to expand...
Agreed but just to be the Devils' Advocate - do you believe that he had some influence in the cars' birth ? Perhaps to accelerate their conception ? Or are Nissan just politley waiting until he's left us to issue an official denial ?

Agreed


Albrecht said:
And Sean, I'm afraid any "New Era" exists largely in your head, and appears to be linked rather more strongly to your own business activities than anything else.....
Click to expand...

a) I have a day job
b) I don't expect to get rich - this is more for the fun and pleasure and opportunity to stay 'in' with like-minded owners - I'm not selling standard parts !
c) I wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't more interest than ever in S30s - you've already noticed that in the past 18 months and Nissans' new-car publicity hasn't harded that - it's already here and WILL snowball !
d) if I applied the same cynicism you have, I'd say that at every opportunity, you quote how YOU were consulted here and YOU that.:rolleyes:

Keep your assumptions to yourself until proven otherwise please.

You're the best qualified person to re-educate us ALL, shove all these myths aside and inform people of, the whole picture. Why don't you ?

Count, if you and no-one else believes that a new era is here, then most of us'll stay in the dark ages. Those that have the knowledge, the passion and/or the willingness should spread the word or at worst not criticise those who do.
 
SeanDezart said:
Agreed but just to be the Devils' Advocate - do you believe that he had some influence in the cars' birth ? Perhaps to accelerate their conception ? Or are Nissan just politley waiting until he's left us to issue an official denial ?
Click to expand...

Katayama's input is difficult to measure in any practical sense. Like I said before, he wasn't a designer, stylist or engineer, and he wasn't there. He was in contact with Matsuo - after the project had already started ( so a 'Maru Z' / 'Fairlady Z' would have existed, with or without Katayama's support ) - and put his head around the door whenever he happened to be in Japan. He helped Matsuo by giving him encouragement and he lobbied for the wants / needs of the north American market to be taken seriously, but tens of other people - the kind of people who were team players - kept their heads down and worked with far more influence on the final product than Katayama.

If anything, Katayama's strong connection to the S30 came about in retrospect and as a consequence of his working methods. A great man, but primarily a salesman with an advertising background who was somewhat fortunate to be working in a boom time. There's a whole line of people who had more input into the S30 than Katayama.

Don't expect Nissan to go into any kind of retro denial mode once Katayama passes. The image of the benign 'Mr K.' is one of their greatest ever sales products. Besides, they've got a couple of hundred thousand wobbly-head 'Mr K' dolls stashed away in a warehouse that they need to find homes for.....

Mr 'New Era' said:
d) if I applied the same cynicism you have, I'd say that at every opportunity, you quote how YOU were consulted here and YOU that.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I don't blow my own vuvuzela all that hard, do I? Besides, if I don't point out the credits then nobody else will. Funnily enough I remember giving you answers to a lot of questions which were apparently for a French journalist, but never got a credit and never even saw the book.

Sean Dezart said:
You're the best qualified person to re-educate us ALL, shove all these myths aside and inform people of, the whole picture. Why don't you ?
Click to expand...

Since when was it my destiny and obligation to "re-educate" anybody? I write what I write in the spirit of a true Forum - and anybody can disagree if they wish. We just bring stuff to the table. It's up to people to take what they want from it. They don't have to be interested if they don't want to be, and they can call it all bullsh*t if they want to.
 
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