Homologation - 240Z G2 GTS21

I see - as even HSCC cars are running with +220ch after non-stop evolution and Nicks' brief for Big Sam was to keep him as-was...is it not a tadge 'unfair' to compare...unless you're using him as a laymans' benchmark ?

Is so then....:

The comparison was made to show that a homologated 240Z could be as quick as Big Sam........was. Is that right ?

I believe as quick as Big Sam is today, if your "Big Sam......was" was reference to the fact that it used to run a 2.4L and did again under Nick Howell's ownership. Today it is running with a 2.8L possibly a tad more.

But back to the main question does anyone know of how many Z's in the UK have HTP's.
 
BlueZmobile said:
I believe as quick as Big Sam is today, if your "Big Sam......was" was reference to the fact that it used to run a 2.4L and did again under Nick Howell's ownership. Today it is running with a 2.8L possibly a tad more.

But back to the main question does anyone know of how many Z's in the UK have HTP's.
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I wasn't aware of of a bigger displacement in Big Sam.

Don't know in the UK, only in France.
 
I'm sure you are aware it ran in the JD Classics Challenge 2011, but blew it's engine twice, this year it sat out. The engine was being rebuilt in September of this year to see if they can blow it up again next year.

How many in France?
 
BlueZmobile said:
I'm sure you are aware it ran in the JD Classics Challenge 2011, but blew it's engine twice, this year it sat out. The engine was being rebuilt in September of this year to see if they can blow it up again next year.

How many in France?
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Who builds the engine for it to blow twice in a year?
 
franky said:
Who builds the engine for it to blow twice in a year?
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Thankyou for asking THAT question.:thumbs:

4x in France of which 2 are imposters and whose preperation has led to stricter levels of scrutineering leading to 2x new cars being refused this year.

There are others being planned too.
 
Who builds the engine for it to blow twice in a year?

JD Classics own Big Sam, their expertise is second to none with Jaguar, they look after Jaguar Heritage Historic Racing cars and are a £20m business, but perhaps they need a little Z expertise when it comes to Big Sam, or perhaps they were just a little unlucky. I was being a little naughty with the comment. They also own FFA 196L and a couple of other original Samuri conversions.
 
4x in France of which 2 are imposters and whose preperation has led to stricter levels of scrutineering leading to 2x new cars being refused this year.

There are others being planned too.

That's good news that there are 4 and that more are planned. I'm interested in the "2 imposters comment", why impostors?
 
I think that you were being very charitable when you say that two Engine Blow-ups in a year was 'unlucky' !

In my book, not so - sound Engineering is just that, no luck is involved - and twice is one coincidence too many.
 
Having been to JD classics on a couple of occasions and having had in depth conversations with Piff etc (in particular L series engine tech) regarding track based engine tech and classic engine builds they are a league and a half above anything that 99% of this forum has experience of…..an example was standing in the engine build area looking at the complete engine from Fangio’s C type Jag, or one of the missing lightweight E types, or looking down on a newly acquired Toyota 2000GT…..they own and maintain 100’s of millions of £’s of exotic machinery, engine meltdowns can be a result of factors other than build.
 
SKiddell said:
, engine meltdowns can be a result of factors other than build.
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Excuse my lack of engineering background, but what other factors are we talking here ?... Component failure ? Suspect build ? Tolerances? over-engineered components that are working at > 100% efficiency ? .External factors eg cooling or the lack off?

Just curious :confused:

Sorry to OP for sidetracking from original post
 
Guys, let's keep this thread about homologation.

Too many threads 'stray' and the last thing we want to do is cause an issue with our respected friends JD Classics.
 
SKiddell said:
...... engine meltdowns can be a result of factors other than build.
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Like a "Gentleman Driver" bouncing a few valves off the top of a few pistons, for example?

Perhaps one of the mechanics at JD should have remembered that when he came on this forum slagging off Tim Riley's engine building so soon after they had acquired the car....
 
Rob Gaskin said:
Guys, let's keep this thread about homologation.
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As far as I can see, this thread has little to do with homologation per se.

I think the question is 'How many UK-based 240Zs have an HTP"?. And I think only the MSA or the FIA themselves know the answer to that. [ /thread]

Rob Gaskin said:
.....the last thing we want to do is cause an issue with our respected friends JD Classics.
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"Our respected friends"....? They are a commercial enterprise, not a national institution.
 
BlueZmobile said:
Does anyone know or have a clue as to how many homologated 240Z's are in the UK with current FIA HTP, specifically Period G2 FIA Class GTS21? Or any other period and class?
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I have one with another hopefully getting papers next year
 
Albrecht said:
Like a "Gentleman Driver" bouncing a few valves off the top of a few pistons, for example?

Perhaps one of the mechanics at JD should have remembered that when he came on this forum slagging off Tim Riley's engine building so soon after they had acquired the car....
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Alan I have little to say on here regarding the Riley engine as I only saw an unusual and well modified head, if that was the head off the “Riley” engine then based around conventional theory the valve /port ratios were wrong plus the valve sizes compromised the “meat” between inlet and exhaust with obvious consequences.

As for the gentleman driver scenario
The rpms used in the testing process should not have resulted in a valve-piston incident ergo sufficient clearance was not designed into the system or something was not in adjustment (cam timing etc), or they were damaged prior to the acquisition.

That’s not slagging off, that just my opinion

Apologies for hijacking, I will back away now as I have nothing to say on homolgation
 
SKiddell said:
Alan I have little to say on here regarding the Riley engine as I only saw an unusual and well modified head, if that was the head off the “Riley” engine then based around conventional theory the valve /port ratios were wrong plus the valve sizes compromised the “meat” between inlet and exhaust with obvious consequences.
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As far as I am aware, Tim was asked to retain the head that came with the car when Nick bought it. It certainly wasn't a 'money no object' build, and at least some thought was given to the question of continuous history, provenance and all those other nebulous concepts that come with old race cars. I'm sure Tim could and would have done it differently if he was given a clean sheet of paper, but he wasn't....

What bugs me about all this is that the very first thing I heard about the car after JD had acquired it was them slagging the engine off. One of their staff popped up on this forum quoting a ( seemingly low ) dyno figure for it, but it wasn't clear whether they were dynoing a perfectly healthy, running engine ( as tested at Goodwood by Mark Hales before the auction ) or something else. It seemed to me that they were dynoing an engine that had already been 'buzzed'. Considering the story given, that was the only logical conclusion as far as I could see. Somebody pulled matey-boys plug out soon afterwards, so we never really got to the bottom of it.

SKiddell said:
As for the gentleman driver scenario
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SKiddell said:
The rpms used in the testing process should not have resulted in a valve-piston incident ergo sufficient clearance was not designed into the system or something was not in adjustment (cam timing etc), or they were damaged prior to the acquisition.

That’s not slagging off, that just my opinion
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What happened? Did the bright lights and high ceilings at JD turn your head or something? Who's guaranteeing the "...rpms used in the testing process...."?

If you ( or JD ) want to build me an engine that has "sufficient clearance" and "the right cam timing" to stop the valves hitting the pistons when I downshift into second instead of fourth, then I'll start saving now! A sequential transmission or just a very BIG diagram of the shift pattern might be easier though.
 
Alan
No one ever claimed to guarantee the rpms used, that would be silly wouldn’t it, I can only trust what I have been told and there is little reason to doubt that or is the starting point these days "guilty until proven innocent".

As for building an "anti-buzz" engine, I have never claimed that could be done, what I did say was
The rpms used in the testing process should not have resulted in a valve-piston incident
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followed by
ergo sufficient clearance was not designed into the system or something was not in adjustment (cam timing etc), or they were damaged prior to the acquisition.
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If “typical” dyno type rpms were the cause then we should all be very afraid and never drive our cars again (some of us don’t)

So we have no information to support a “buzz” on the dyno which is in itself a very unlikely event therefore we must assume that it happened due to either incorrect design/adjustment or it happened prior to acquisition.

If the "Riley" engine had been buzzed prior to acquisition then that’s hardly JD's fault is it.

I take on board your point regarding the initial posts (on here) some time ago and how they might have been viewed as less than favourable to Mr Riley and that none of the JD team have since returned to offer more information but maybe that’s because the reception they got was less than welcoming, from people they owe nothing too.

Yes I am a little defensive of the team at JD but that’s down to professional engineering respect rather than any sort of undeserving sycophantic hero worship often seen around these parts.
 
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