Door skins

What exactly is this "E-glass" that you are raving about. My fibreglass manufacturers have been using the product listed as E-glass for as long as I can remember (and that's long......) - it is the standard glass mat used in all our fibreglass and, as far as I am aware, always has been...
 
Forgive me for being the newby, and perhaps not understanding internal politics/club makeup/social makeup etc etc, but may I ask why on earth it matters??

If you were restoring a car to full original spec, then yes, I can see how having a non-original part would detract from that aspect. But otherwise, I ask again, does it matter??

We have these rows all the time in the rotary world - what constitutes an original RX7, and what is effectively a rotary kit car? People argue for months over this, that and the other. In the end, all it does is make the rotary world seem like a clique group which pushes people (and future owners/lovers of the vehicle) away!

If people want to keep their zeds running, by fitting FRP doors, and it means they can continue to enjoy the vehicle, the club, the car scene, then I'm all for it.

There you go. My 2ps worth. Hey, everyone else has hijacked this thread, so why not join in eh!!!
 
Rob and Peter, check out FRP Car Body Shells & Panels for prices on allsorts.
Yeah Rob the moulds replicate the inners as well as the outers and are reinforced where bits bolt on so all the gubbins can be transfered no probs. They can be as sturdy as you want!
Impact protection can be fitted as well, on the minis we have put 25mm steel tube flanged at both ends in the doors. They fasten to the reinforced 2 ends of the doors.
I hadn't thought of Seans point of keeping your original steel panels 'safe' whilst you stuff your car into the hay bales on the track, that idea has obvious benefits.
Mike, E-glass is the material (most) glass products are made from, when you've been in the frp game a long time like I unfortunately have! you make general comments which I think Sean has picked up on from info I have sent him.
I call woven rovings, bi-axial, unidirectional, plain weave, stiched glass etc...etc...E-glass. The stuff you are talking about is chopped strand matt (csm).
The difference between csm and the other alternatives is a sliding scale from a bit better to a completely different structure (product).
The door skins for example..I make the door skins (and everything else) from stiched bi-axial / tri-axial E-glass. The difference is massive. I won't go boringly technical but a stiched e-glass tri-axial door skin will be 3x stronger, twice as stiff and 40% lighter than csm.
With the right resin the parts are much more stable once you fit them to the car.
Ie they don't distort, warp or suffer surface finish problems that everyone is aware of.
Rob G, I understand your points but you have answered your question yourself...you've never seen a good frp panel fitted to a Z, but things have moved on.
Carbon fibre.... Unless you require the look don't bother, you will get charged a fortune for a product which is designed for STRUCTURAL products. E-glass ( sorry MR F for any confusion) will provide everything you need.
A quick comparison to end ...A decent resin and decent e-glass can up the tensile strenght of a component by up to 8x.
Thanks for all the comments
Craig
 
What a geek ! :p

But 40% lighter than Rob Gs' Z suits me fine.:D Can't even begin to calculate the fuel saving.............:smash:
 
Throttleton said:
Rob and Peter, check out FRP Car Body Shells & Panels for prices on allsorts.
Yeah Rob the moulds replicate the inners as well as the outers and are reinforced where bits bolt on so all the gubbins can be transfered no probs. They can be as sturdy as you want!
Impact protection can be fitted as well, on the minis we have put 25mm steel tube flanged at both ends in the doors. They fasten to the reinforced 2 ends of the doors.
I hadn't thought of Seans point of keeping your original steel panels 'safe' whilst you stuff your car into the hay bales on the track, that idea has obvious benefits.
Mike, E-glass is the material (most) glass products are made from, when you've been in the frp game a long time like I unfortunately have! you make general comments which I think Sean has picked up on from info I have sent him.
I call woven rovings, bi-axial, unidirectional, plain weave, stiched glass etc...etc...E-glass. The stuff you are talking about is chopped strand matt (csm).
The difference between csm and the other alternatives is a sliding scale from a bit better to a completely different structure (product).
The door skins for example..I make the door skins (and everything else) from stiched bi-axial / tri-axial E-glass. The difference is massive. I won't go boringly technical but a stiched e-glass tri-axial door skin will be 3x stronger, twice as stiff and 40% lighter than csm.
With the right resin the parts are much more stable once you fit them to the car.
Ie they don't distort, warp or suffer surface finish problems that everyone is aware of.
Rob G, I understand your points but you have answered your question yourself...you've never seen a good frp panel fitted to a Z, but things have moved on.
Carbon fibre.... Unless you require the look don't bother, you will get charged a fortune for a product which is designed for STRUCTURAL products. E-glass ( sorry MR F for any confusion) will provide everything you need.
A quick comparison to end ...A decent resin and decent e-glass can up the tensile strenght of a component by up to 8x.
Thanks for all the comments
Craig
Click to expand...

Now this mans worth listening to (Craig)
lets throw this in, I believe renault use kevlar for front wings and panels, i am amazed at the quality of these panels and paint finnish, how do f/glass compare?
 
Good Thread - I'm learning something which is what I want from this Forum.

I am a big fan of Fibreglass, in fact my first car was made of it (Reliant 3 wheeler :eek:) well I was only 16! Also my mate who I did rallies with put his Cooper S through a dry stone wall on a rally (with me in it) and he repaired it with a one-piece front. The car would have been a write-off without that option.

I want as much of my car to be Fibreglass as poss.

Doors (getting back to the point) yes I'm fitting some (I do have side protection). If the quality of the door is top class and is made as a direct replacement for steel then I would have thought that was better than a composite (mix of steel/Fibreglass). It needs all the bits to fit without hassle though.

My 370 has a lot of 'plastic' (?) parts and aluminium panels and they look ok.

However if a 240 came out of Japan with steel panels then it should still be steel today to retain it's value. I'm talking about the best ones now. Everthing else - anything goes :thumbs:.
 
Cheers tel240z.
Yeah kevlar is an amazing material. Mostly used in some sort of protection industry, motorbike knee, elbow protection, bullet proof vests etc. Kevlar in a road car panel seems pointless!
We make the kevlar mini parts for Green & White and he insists on kevlar coz if he smashes the front end in he can literally kick or yank the front end and it will bounce back to something that looked like the front end originally. I don't think that will work for a new car insurance claim on your new passat!
Aceman...... you can have some discount!!!!
 
presume its best to contact you via your website info regarding panels etc and its great to see you have the scuttle panel now aswell, i shall order mine very soon
 
Throttleton said:
I hadn't thought of Seans point of keeping your original steel panels 'safe' whilst you stuff your car into the hay bales on the track, that idea has obvious benefits.
Click to expand...

Yeah great....I've just stuffed my zed beyond the run off area on a track day and my newly fitted FRP doors are fucked, not to mention the kink in the roof and the battered rear quarter and twisted sill.

But hey, at least I saved my metal doors - what a relief :rolleyes:
 
Ooooh - that reminds me - what value on a converted US shell against an original UK shell but with f/g panels....................? :confused::eek:
 
So.. have re-read all the posts and picked up on the main areas people are concerned about with plastic parts ie the door skins.
'They don't look right'
'They don't fit properly'
'They don't feel right'
The other issue about whether you should or shouldn't have plastic panels on a z for historical or valuation issues on say a A1 restoration car is not something I can argue against tbh. If I had a mint condition Z even I would keep the panels steel. Unless like Sean has suggested to keep the original panels 'safe' when you've managed to drive your car side down a bollard.
For the other 90% of us I'll keep the thread going if interest is there to show the main areas of concern can be overcome.
Attached is a pic of a door. It is made from posh e-glass and the surface has not been painted. White is an awkward colour in a photograph but hopefully it goes someway to help disprove the first point. The parts can be made so that side by side with steel you can't tell the difference.
There are a few cars getting these doors over the coming weeks and with the owners permission I hope to get some good pics of the doors fitted to the car to help with the second point.
The third point ... with csm when you tap the door skins it feels like you are tapping the bottom of a plastic bucket. E-glass is much closer to steel when you give them a knock.
The other problem with csm is you have to make panels much thicker than steel to get them as stiff, with decent materials a door skin will be about 1mm thick.
Will post pics of fitting etc as I get them.
 

Attachments

  • z 001.JPG
    z 001.JPG
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That looks fantastic. I'm looking forward to fitting mine. The problem is on my car they will look like steel and the rest of the car Fibreglass. Can you make your shells out of this?

How do they compare weight-wise with a steel door shell?
 
Ha Ha!. Well you know what to do then Rob..dust off the wallet!!
Full door 4.8 kilos! What's the weight of a steel one ????
Yeah now I've gone this far I'm going to sell my grp car and make a full e-glass carbon affair shell.
If it helps Rob I can make your doors look shit so they match the rest of your car. Ha Ha!!!
 
Throttleton said:
Ha Ha!. Well you know what to do then Rob..dust off the wallet!!
Full door 4.8 kilos! What's the weight of a steel one ????
Yeah now I've gone this far I'm going to sell my grp car and make a full e-glass carbon affair shell.
If it helps Rob I can make your doors look shit so they match the rest of your car. Ha Ha!!!
Click to expand...

Weight - what do you mean by a full door?

Wallet - Oh no not you aswell - PM me please.
I buy what I need, not what I don't need :thumbs:.

Don't worry when I spray them with aerosols I'll make them match the rest of the car - it's a fine art :lol:
 
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Full door is the inner and outer bonded together.
You need to bolt your oe gubbins on if so desired.
Buy the full kit,shave a few secs off your lap times and everyone will think it's because your an amazing driver! (I'll keep it a secret)
Areshole spray....Keep it beige... your car is red so a colour match might be painfull!!!
 
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