CLSD's for R200's

[Ian]

R200, R200....why complicate and make expensive your life ?

Just because I already have one and it would save me changing to an R180

For what it's worth I think Ian is going for 500bhp if I remember correctly

I should have mentioned more - My car is a 78 260Z so has an R200 already (I also already have CV Shaft setup) and I am not planning on running stock power for very long. Cars use will mainly be road but I will also be attending the odd trackday and Drag race.


I don't think I'll ever be running 500HP. I still plan to swap in an RB as long as I can bring myself to take out the L26. If I go RB I am looking to run around 400HP, it will be fast enouth but I'll be able to use smaller turbos and tune for no lag and good response rather than outright power.

Would be good however if whatever I go with is also capable with 500HP just incase ever wish to run more in the future.

He means one like this works a treat NEW 3.545:1 Subaru Impreza STI rear mechanical Limited Slip Diff R180 27011AB100 | eBay

That looks nice and it is a good price but of course I'd also have to buy all the parts needed to change to R180 on top of that. Also the ratio is a bit low.

Why not go for the Quaife in the first place? Road and track friendly, proven to do the bussines by memebers on here. If your not running stupid horespower the quaife is available for a R180 also.

As Matt says, you can't do better than the Quaife - we have fitted several and the Owners have always been very happy with their performance and we've never heard of them failing.
So why buy anything else ?

I have a Quaife in my EF and its great in that (Imo perfect for FWD's) and they are definitly strong so I'd not have to worry about breaking it but the cons I can see are; its only a 1 way so I don't get the benifits of a 1.5 way (or 2way) and also the fact that it will behave as an open diff if one of the rear wheels lifts in a corner (although thats probably not that likely to happen) Most of what I have heard for performance driving is saying that CLSD's are far better.

I know CLSD's can be a bit snatchy but I've driven a fair bit in my mates GTST with a nismo 2 way and its only bad at very slow speeds and mini roundabouts etc but gives loads of grip in the corners and most of the time you don't notice ant extra noise or harshness.

Perhaps because Ian wants to hear the pros and cons for each application although I suspect a Quaife will fulfill his modest needs.

I have an idea of the pros and cons of each but if anyone wants to add anything to this effect thats also good.

I have run both CLSD and Quaife and for road/track the Quaife is far superior, no heat, no clutch plates to wear, always engaged, almost unbreakable, (I've missed 4th and hit 2nd buzzing the engine to well over 9K busting the solid diff mount.....phoned Quaife because I thought I had broken the diff and they laughed), diff has been in use for 7 years now.

If my car was just for relaxed to spirited road use then I'd definitly go for the Quaife but form reports I've heard it isn't superior for performance driving, rather CLSD's are superior for this. While it (Quaife) might always be engaged to some extent they never lock fully, not sure that this is a downside though.




Hard choice without try out both in a back to back test.

 

[MikeB]

Franky

As has been said it depends how tight a plate diff has been set up. For some competition work, a plate diff is set up very stiff, so when driving on the ordinary road at low speeds the diff clunks and bangs on tight corners. It can also create initial understeer into a corner, certainly I experienced that on a wet road at moderate speeds on a diff that wasn't very tight at all. The Quaife is a Torsen type diff and acts like a standard diff until one of the wheels starts to spin, so in ordinary road use you get none of the above disadvantages. The downfall of the Quaife diff is if you end up with one rear wheel not on the ground, as it then acts like a standard diff and you lose drive, whereas the plate diff will still put drive to the wheel on the ground. Hence plate diffs are favoured by the rally boys, who are more likely to be in that situation.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Never had an LSD in a 240Z.

Been in Johnny's car and Duncan's rally car - massive difference from a passenger point of view. A plate diff would be too obtrusive for anything but a competition car IMO.

Ok it was IMO just from my experience in Duncan's car - it must have been set up very tight.

The car was fantastic, I'd love it.

 

[SeanDezart]

Franky

As has been said it depends how tight a plate diff has been set up. For some competition work, a plate diff is set up very stiff, so when driving on the ordinary road at low speeds the diff clunks and bangs on tight corners. It can also create initial understeer into a corner, certainly I experienced that on a wet road at moderate speeds on a diff that wasn't very tight at all. The Quaife is a Torsen type diff and acts like a standard diff until one of the wheels starts to spin, so in ordinary road use you get none of the above disadvantages. The downfall of the Quaife diff is if you end up with one rear wheel not on the ground, as it then acts like a standard diff and you lose drive, whereas the plate diff will still put drive to the wheel on the ground. Hence plate diffs are favoured by the rally boys, who are more likely to be in that situation.

Ah, some sense - better for giving a balanced view. Also the preferred choice of circuit competition drivers and maybe hill-climbers Ben ? Certainly that risk of lack of drive with a wheel in the air must have an adverse effect on twisty hills....

Ian - how much for a Quaife ?
subaru lsd diff | eBay

Could cost a lot less to fit an R180 even with adapted driveshafs and maybe the original 3.7 is too high (not low).

Plated diffs can be wound up tight or let slack - too many people think they're fixed and clunk too much.

 

[Alphabettispaghetti]

Franky

As has been said it depends how tight a plate diff has been set up. For some competition work, a plate diff is set up very stiff, so when driving on the ordinary road at low speeds the diff clunks and bangs on tight corners. It can also create initial understeer into a corner, certainly I experienced that on a wet road at moderate speeds on a diff that wasn't very tight at all. The Quaife is a Torsen type diff and acts like a standard diff until one of the wheels starts to spin, so in ordinary road use you get none of the above disadvantages. The downfall of the Quaife diff is if you end up with one rear wheel not on the ground, as it then acts like a standard diff and you lose drive, whereas the plate diff will still put drive to the wheel on the ground. Hence plate diffs are favoured by the rally boys, who are more likely to be in that situation.

Yep, I guess if you're running a really tight plated unit then i wouldn't be ideal. The two lightweight toy cars i've built have had plated units that worked great on Lincolnshires bumpy backroads and in the wet.

 

[MikeB]

Best plate LSD I have experienced is a Gripper, which is a modern multi plate diff as compared to a ZF or Salisbury. The Gripper was in a 1960s 190hp Alfa Sprint that I hillclimbers and sprinted, as well as driving on the road. The original ZF came in with a bang and chucked the tail out, the Gripper just fed the power to the ground and drove the car round and out of the corner superbly. It was really nice to drive on the road as well. Think the Kaz is a similar design, don't know the internals of a Cusco.

A standard Subby diff or any other car diff will likely to be set up more for road use, so is unlikely to be unfriendly for normal use, and of course you can get them tweaked easily enough I imagine, due to the number of folk tuning the cars.

 

[Ian]

Thanks for all the opinions/advice/experience so far.

Ian - how much for a Quaife ?
subaru lsd diff | eBay

I haven't looked yet as I didn't really consider getting one, I'd guess beetween £700 - £800

Could cost a lot less to fit an R180 even with adapted driveshafs and maybe the original 3.7 is too high (not low).

Ratio is something I need to look into and will do before deciding anything.




If I were to go for a plated diff I wouldn't have it set really tight and if I go for one like the Cusco RS (rather than MZ) that uses a spring for the initial movement the engagement is more progressive.

 

[amocrace]

as always pro's and con's for both types. I have used a plate type diff for 7 seasons and no problems at all (circuit racing). I have also driven cars with Quaife diffs and had no problems except if you do pick a rear wheel up i.e. rear wheel hopping over a kerb you lose traction as with a Quaife you need to have some resistance at both rear wheels.

 

[Ian]

From the sounds of it either LSD would work fine.


If I am to run an RB then the 3.7 might be too long as I beleive the GTS-T final drive is something like 4.363, so quite far off 3.7.



Might have to find a suitable alternative diff to use, a 4.1 might work nicely.

 

[datsun dave]

From the sounds of it either LSD would work fine.


If I am to run an RB then the 3.7 might be too long as I beleive the GTS-T final drive is something like 4.363, so quite far off 3.7.



Might have to find a suitable alternative diff to use, a 4.1 might work nicely.

I have installed a Nissan 200sx R200 diff 4.1 in my S30 RB conversion.