Alternator required

DaveF

Club Member
Afternoon all and Happy New Year Eve Eve,

To end the year, my alternator has decided it doesn't like it's home any more and stopped working! I thought it might be the battery, but that's holding a charge. Checked the output on the alternator....and nothing.

Is it possible for get these rebuild or would I better to fit a new one? Can anyone point me in the direction of a good supplier? Should I be looking at higher amperage too?

Many thanks
 

MCBladeRun

Club Member
Had mine replaced by the auto-electrician in Bristol. They said it was not cost-effective to repair so offered a replacement.

However, yours may have an easier fix. It's worth looking for a repair shop 👍
 

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
You can:

1. buy a new one off rock auto


2. Have it rewound and upgraded by a specialist (just google alternator rebuild near me). I had my 280zx done at a local place for £120 - they put in a beefier stator, updated the rectifiers and painted it. It now has the ability produce 90A, but looks like a stock 280zx alternator. You can even get them to drop in new bearings, bushes etc.

These are the guys I used: http://www.robsonandfrancisrewinds.co.uk/

3. Use a more modern alternator from a Nissan maxima or Alerma etc but will need making up a new wiring plug to wiring harness and you will need to swap the pulley over.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Just a point about using an alternator with a big output capability Ali, comments invited:

When do you think you would need 90A from an alternator in an S30?

If that situation ever occurred do you think the standard wiring could cope safely?

If not then you need a suitable fuse/fusible-link in the output circuit.

I think you have to be careful installing upgraded electrical components in classic cars that weren't designed for them.

My S30s were really poor electrically and I think there is a 'market' for complete new wiring looms and components, including switchgear, headlights, charging, starters, battery leads, fuses boxes, Tachos, ballast resistors etc etc. The 'grounding' in these cars is really poor too (especially at the rear).

People like John Palmer upgrade wiring as a matter of necessity in all their rebuilds. Components are not so easy to source.

I wonder what MZR do?

I know the Z farm do a good job on their rally cars, well the ones I've looked at..
 

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
To add to that Rob, all of the current used by the car on a 240z goes through the dash to the ammeter, so any upgrade of capacity should include bypassing the ammeter.
Also Dave, you need to determine whether your car has internal or external voltage regulator. All the upgrade alternators have internal regulators, so you might need to fixup the wiring for that too.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
To add to that Rob, all of the current used by the car on a 240z goes through the dash to the ammeter, so any upgrade of capacity should include bypassing the ammeter.
Also Dave, you need to determine whether your car has internal or external voltage regulator. All the upgrade alternators have internal regulators, so you might need to fixup the wiring for that too.
Yes Jon, I took all the ammeter wiring out of that blue rally car and installed a voltmeter.

The problem with upgrading all the electrics is that it costs money for something you can't see so a lot of people put up with the old inefficient stuff. Also it takes the car away from standard.

Having said all this do we know of an electrical fire in one of these cars.
 
Last edited:

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
Why have more juice on the alternator? Simple, when you add things like 40w per channel stereos, subs, electric fans, oxygen sensor, aftermarket ECU etc etc etc. you’re stressing a 40A alternator beyond its design intent.

The 40 Amps are sure as heck not there at idle and need say minimum 3k RPM to be generated - so on a wet night with the cabin heater fan going, stereo on, say rear screen heater (if it works) and / or front heated screen, wipers on, lights on (assuming non-LED) + electric cooling fan, you’re way over what the stock alternator is able to deliver at idle.

Now then to your points:

1. The ammeter and associated wiring is of course a fair shout. That is alternator upgrade 101 and why in TR / BL circles, high amp ammeters are available for such upgrades. But if you already have a voltmeter then I t’s a moot point.

2. Just because the alternator is able to deliver more, doesn’t make your accessories consume any more than they already do or need. Their resistance doesn’t change because you added more capability to the alternator. They all sit behind fuses anyway, so regardless of the alternator being capable of delivering 0A or 1000A, the accessory behind a 5A fuse or 40A fuse will still draw the same and the fuse will blow if there is a short. The wiring is already being burdened by the same amps so no worries about wires burning there or upgrades being required.

3. The only place (ammeter aside) where the wiring can be overwhelmed is:

A) a short before the fuse box - which frankly will still burn when you consider the battery will deliver 300+ CCA and 90Ah without the alternator even functioning.

B) the charge cable going from the alternator to the starter motor (then to the battery). The battery is the only thing that can draw more amps than the wiring is designed to deliver - but then again, that wiring to the alternator has a fusible link between alternator and the starter motor. So the link will blow before the stock wiring fries.

As you know from my posts, I didn’t get round to running my parallel cable when I fitted the juicier alternator and never had problems until a loose bolt from the back of the alternator fell into it and started shorting things. And even in that scenario, the fusible link blew first. But for 7 years before that, it ran perfectly OK with the juicier alternator and no extra cabling. Which of course is now remedied by running a 60A cable fused at 40A before the alternator, in parallel with the original wiring, allowing the battery to take max current from the alternator if required. Which it never has done and for that to happen, the battery has to be totally flat.

So back on track with the OP’s question: my preference would be to get yours rebuilt in the UK, as you would have “come back” and have a higher chance that quality parts are being used. Some of the reman stuff I’ve bought (not alternator) has been shockingly poor quality. And bear in mind RockAuto’s returns policy looks great on paper but either too expensive to return or they don’t accept the return as it costs them too much to post back. Ask me how I know ;)

So if you’re worried about what the grumpy old men are saying, then have it rebuilt to stock spec. But you now know the logic as to why I went the upgraded route and would again in a heartbeat!
 
Last edited:

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
The point about the ammeter is not the capacity of the ammeter, its that the shunt on the 240z is built in to the ammeter, so the wiring to the ammeter carries the full load (whether charging or discharging). And the wiring is rated for 40A.
So by all means upgrade the alternator, but cut the ammeter wiring out first.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Re ammeter wiring:
For clarity for readers, the ammeter shows the charging current going to the battery or the discharge current flowing from the battery.

So in a healthy situation it shouldn't read very much at all. All the current being supplied to the electrical systems should ideally be coming from the alternator (via the fusebox) and not registering on the ammeter. However during short periods of high load it can do.

Re fusable link in the alternator output cct, I don't think there is one on a 240Z. There is one shown on some diagrams though but my three 240s didn't have one. I think 260/280 did.

Ali, I agree that a 280ZX 60A alternatior is a good upgrade (3 of my cars had them).
 
Last edited:

AliK

Vehicle Dating Officer
Staff member
Club Member
@Rob Gaskin - that’s really interesting! When I was helping Woddy’s father with something on their car (I think it’s a very early 240), I searched high and low for the fusible links which were nowhere to be seen!!!! I had assumed at the time that the PO had chopped them out- but now I realise I was mistaken!

You also raise a good point there Rob. When I added a few new items to my car, instead of using individual fuses here and there, I installed a second fuse box in the passenger footwell high up by the bulkhead with it’s own sheath protected cable fused at 40A, less than 1” from the battery terminal. Again if @DaveF goes down the route of adding additional items / upgrading the alternator, it’s worth considering.

IMG_4402.jpeg
 

DaveF

Club Member
Thanks for all the useful information and links Gents, very much appreicated. I'm going to check exactly what set-up I've got before I sort anything....bit of forensic work needed to see what's been done in the past!

Thanks again and best wishes for 2024! Might even get to meet soome of you in person!
 

DaveF

Club Member
Well the alternator is out... Looks quite pretty when cleaned..... But I suspect the brushes have seen better days!!

Well send the whole thing away for a refurb just to be sure 😊
 

Attachments

  • IMG20240415181848.jpg
    IMG20240415181848.jpg
    270.8 KB · Views: 15
  • IMG20240415174718.jpg
    IMG20240415174718.jpg
    158.6 KB · Views: 15

DaveF

Club Member
Gents, sent my alternator away (to Robson and Francis Rewinds) but in the event that it's not back in time, could you confirm if the attached will fit? It's 12v and 50amp but a later Hitachi model....?

Cheers
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2024-04-16-18-04-39-72_260528048de7f2f358f0056f785be619.jpg
    Screenshot_2024-04-16-18-04-39-72_260528048de7f2f358f0056f785be619.jpg
    93.3 KB · Views: 16

MCBladeRun

Club Member
Gents, sent my alternator away (to Robson and Francis Rewinds) but in the event that it's not back in time, could you confirm if the attached will fit? It's 12v and 50amp but a later Hitachi model....?

Cheers
Looks right, the only trip hazard would be the conundrum of the internal/external regulator 👍
 

Huw

Club Member
Rather than a second hand unit. What about this:


Used these guys before and service was ok and NOT from the US so shipping wasn’t super silly.
 

IbanezDan51

Well-Known Forum User
I probably have a spare second hand one Dave, message me. I will post it and if it works ok it gets you out the Sh*T

Cheers
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huw
Top