SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Well, it's your call and your time ; if you're counting all the hours into a build and expecting to recover all costs, the 'cheap' good-nick 280Zs are easily going to become £20k cars on the market.
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280z desirable?
- Thread starter johnymd
- Start date
My Datsun 280z has a 240z front bumper on it and the rear bumper removed and the body smoothed over , most people look at it and say "nice Datsun 240z" even though it's got 280z badges on it in the correct places.
If I were to put 240z badges on it 90% of people wouldn't know the difference .
If I were to put 240z badges on it 90% of people wouldn't know the difference .
datsfun
Club Member
Make that 99%
Has anyone on here actually driven a 240z, 260 and 280z? Assuming they were same spec, would you
honestly be able to tell them apart?
chrisvega
Well-Known Forum User
Higher prices when justified yes and I'd like to see 280Zs get that sort of money whether they be 4 or 5 spd but be careful as low mileage, original paint but modded are not so appreciated in the classic world
Modded ? I wouldn't say putting a Datsun or Nissan 5 speed box and 240Z bumpers on a 280Z was modding though ? Would say more of an upgrade / improvement but paying homage to the line ? Good old Ralph Nader was responsible for the oversized and overweight bumpers and I don't know why all US bound Zs had to make do with poverty spec 4 speed boxes until 77 ?
Red Barons offer he turned down at £ 20k makes my car seem cheap or at least on the money then Sean
I would make an educated guess that Honda dealer didn't know the difference between 240 and 280Z and probably wasn't consciously thinking about or actively looking for one to buy - he just saw a Japanese classic car he loved the look of and made an impulse offer there and then ? Barking up right tree Red Baron ?
I had exactly same thing from a Porsche dealer last week on mine. He knew nothing about values or 240s or 280s just that it was a 2 seater Z and he loved the colour, the stance and the look of the car and thought it was great value at £ 15k, so much so he is thinking about buying it for himself when he gets back from holiday if it is still around.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Has anyone on here actually driven a 240z, 260 and 280z? Assuming they were same spec, would you
honestly be able to tell them apart?
Absolutely.
Can easily tell the difference between different market versions of the '240Z', let alone the others.
This line of argument soon disappears up it's own wazoo. The fact that 99.99999% of The General Public couldn't tell the difference between X and Y is no proof of anything. For the huge majority, a KGC10 is "the same thing" as a KPGC10. However, this doesn't make the KGC10 "worth" as much as a genuine KPGC10, does it?
This thread needs to acknowledge that one market of '240Z' can be quite different in terms of dynamics, 'driveability', rarity and market value from another '240Z', let alone from later models of the same series. An S30-series '280Z' might well be an alternative to a '240Z', but let's not kid ourselves that they are the same thing, as they are not.
datsfun
Club Member
Maybe I should have been clearer in my earlier post..I was not suggesting that a 280z can step into the shoes of the 240z and therefore they are essentially the same. Given most examples nowdays have been upgraded to improve handling and power if you had a 240, 260 and 280, with say 2.8, twin SU carbs, same suspension set up, is the difference between the evolution that noticeable?
Agreed and noted. I guess it's the same like comparing a
432 with a "240z".
Agreed and noted. I guess it's the same like comparing a
432 with a "240z".
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Since (compared to LHD 240Zs) both models share the same type code.....the margin for error by anyone and....for any reason
is large and nice and vague.Chris - sell 'em high if you can - suits me mate !
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
I've been in a 280z, it felt a bit more wheezy than the 2.4 engined 240z I was in the day before. It was a nice car but it felt like the interior had lost some of its charm, I guess it was just a little more refined but 'heavier' feeling.
Chris, I will come over, I've a week off coming up
Chris, I will come over, I've a week off coming up
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
I've been in a 280z, it felt a bit more wheezy than the 2.4 engined 240z I was in the day before. It was a nice car but it felt like the interior had lost some of its charm, I guess it was just a little more refined but 'heavier' feeling.
Chris, I will come over, I've a week off coming up
Slap in a lightened flywheel and a 260Z 3.7 diff and wehay !
chrisvega
Well-Known Forum User
The other problem with trying to compare 240/60/80 is that most cars will not still be running standard factory spec. regardless of original market destination.
Even if you had a standard 240/260/280 let's say all to US spec. ( as the 280 has to be ) they would all have different mileage/owners/servicing etc.
A basic upgrade such as changing the tyre/wheel size alters the feel of an original car - if you drive a 240 on original 175/185 rubber and 14 inch standard steel wheels it feels a lot lighter and less planted than anything with 15 inch wheels on. 205/60/15 feel different than 225/50/15 on the same car etc
A layman's answer in general terms ( as opposed to Albrecht's in depth answer ) from my experience is yes, broadly similar. The early model 280 that I have ( same 4 speed box, 3.36 diff as 240 ) but fuel injected rather than twin Hitachi is maybe a little more refined, long legged and slightly less frantic compared to another similar spec. 240 I have driven with the rawness being part of the charm of the original.
A later model 280 built in 77/78 with 5 speed box, power steering and 170bhp will be even more removed from the original 240 and definitely noticably different but haven't driven one to comment.
As Franky says ( not 'relax' lol ) ultimately a 280 whilst not a 240 is similar enough and a cheaper way into the 2 seater Z experience. I know from selling classics on a regular basis that the average ' Joe Cool ' ( he has to be to want a Z ) has about £ 12/15k in his pocket to spend on a car. With the prices of the earlier 240 models on an ever upwards trajectory and getting out of that ball park, he will get a lot more car for his money with a 280. No, not a 240 but pretty damn similar and a great useable classic to boot.
Co-incidentally I have a 2 owner 1970 240Z arriving tomorrow with 100k miles on it, factory standard except 2.8 rebuilt block mated to original head/carbs so can do a road test versus the 100k mile 2 owner 280Z with Franky and report back if anyone is interested.
Even if you had a standard 240/260/280 let's say all to US spec. ( as the 280 has to be ) they would all have different mileage/owners/servicing etc.
A basic upgrade such as changing the tyre/wheel size alters the feel of an original car - if you drive a 240 on original 175/185 rubber and 14 inch standard steel wheels it feels a lot lighter and less planted than anything with 15 inch wheels on. 205/60/15 feel different than 225/50/15 on the same car etc
A layman's answer in general terms ( as opposed to Albrecht's in depth answer ) from my experience is yes, broadly similar. The early model 280 that I have ( same 4 speed box, 3.36 diff as 240 ) but fuel injected rather than twin Hitachi is maybe a little more refined, long legged and slightly less frantic compared to another similar spec. 240 I have driven with the rawness being part of the charm of the original.
A later model 280 built in 77/78 with 5 speed box, power steering and 170bhp will be even more removed from the original 240 and definitely noticably different but haven't driven one to comment.
As Franky says ( not 'relax' lol ) ultimately a 280 whilst not a 240 is similar enough and a cheaper way into the 2 seater Z experience. I know from selling classics on a regular basis that the average ' Joe Cool ' ( he has to be to want a Z ) has about £ 12/15k in his pocket to spend on a car. With the prices of the earlier 240 models on an ever upwards trajectory and getting out of that ball park, he will get a lot more car for his money with a 280. No, not a 240 but pretty damn similar and a great useable classic to boot.
Co-incidentally I have a 2 owner 1970 240Z arriving tomorrow with 100k miles on it, factory standard except 2.8 rebuilt block mated to original head/carbs so can do a road test versus the 100k mile 2 owner 280Z with Franky and report back if anyone is interested.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
170bhp ?
They either had this from the beginning or didn't have it at all !
Accepting that the first series 280ZXs had 145 (raising to 150 with increased comp ratio in '82/'83) all on the same engine, injection and ignition.....where did it all go ?
chrisvega
Well-Known Forum User
Hmmmm, good point
Well various Z history sites state 170hp for 77/78 280Z but think Datsun must have changed the way they quoted the power rating ? May have been 170hp gross which equates to 145 SAE net ??
Quote
1975 the displacement was increased to 2.8 liters and the vehicle dubbed the 280Z. A Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection system was included which helped bring increase the horsepower to 149.
In 1977, the horsepower rating was 170. A five-speed overdrive transmission was now offered, giving the vehicle better performance and fuel economy. The sales of the Z car once again hit a record high, with 67,331 units sold.
Quote
The 1976 Datsun 280Z was unchanged except for a voltmeter replacing the ammeter, but in 1977, a 5-speed manual finally became optional. The overdrive-5th gearbox cost $165 over the standard-equipment 4-speed. Although engine specifications were unchanged, horsepower increased to 170 at 5600 rpm. With a new model forthcoming, changes were limited for 1978, most notably a standard AM/FM radio and, for the first time, black as an available color.
Well various Z history sites state 170hp for 77/78 280Z but think Datsun must have changed the way they quoted the power rating ? May have been 170hp gross which equates to 145 SAE net ??
Quote
1975 the displacement was increased to 2.8 liters and the vehicle dubbed the 280Z. A Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection system was included which helped bring increase the horsepower to 149.
In 1977, the horsepower rating was 170. A five-speed overdrive transmission was now offered, giving the vehicle better performance and fuel economy. The sales of the Z car once again hit a record high, with 67,331 units sold.
Quote
The 1976 Datsun 280Z was unchanged except for a voltmeter replacing the ammeter, but in 1977, a 5-speed manual finally became optional. The overdrive-5th gearbox cost $165 over the standard-equipment 4-speed. Although engine specifications were unchanged, horsepower increased to 170 at 5600 rpm. With a new model forthcoming, changes were limited for 1978, most notably a standard AM/FM radio and, for the first time, black as an available color.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Do you believe all that you read in the papers, the TV news ?
My opinion ?
240Z L20 112 DIN
Z432 S20 138 DIN
240Z L24 130 DIN (115 USA '73 and post '72 for California)
260Z L26 139 DIN (120 USA)
280Z L28 145 DIN
And anyone is welcome to correct me.
My opinion ?
240Z L20 112 DIN
Z432 S20 138 DIN
240Z L24 130 DIN (115 USA '73 and post '72 for California)
260Z L26 139 DIN (120 USA)
280Z L28 145 DIN
And anyone is welcome to correct me.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Then there was the 280ZX turbo :
USA 180 DIN
Europe 200 DIN
and the VG30 atmo in the Z31 :
170 DIN
and turbo :
USA 200 DIN
Europe 220 DIN
VG30 Z32 :
atmo 230? DIN
turbo 280DIN
Anyway, 170 in a 1975 L28inj seems very optimistic.
USA 180 DIN
Europe 200 DIN
and the VG30 atmo in the Z31 :
170 DIN
and turbo :
USA 200 DIN
Europe 220 DIN
VG30 Z32 :
atmo 230? DIN
turbo 280DIN
Anyway, 170 in a 1975 L28inj seems very optimistic.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
If anyone has questions about a 280z, I can happily answer them being that I owned a dog of a 72' 240Z before emigrating to Canada where I got myself a running 280z.
One noticeable difference that I think I've PM'd Alan before (for his fastidious records) is that the 78's don't have the roll bar welded nutserts in the rear C pillar panel.
I'm proud it's a 280z, slightly thicker gauge steel to weld and work on, a little stiffer (and heavier of a chassis), an L28 to work with. Sure it took some work to get it looking how I wanted, but it's coming along. Every single person who has walked passed my garage has said 'nice 240' most people forget there was the 260 and 280.
My build thread is here - http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/86608/1978-datsun-major-progress-update?page=32
Happy to answer any questions.
One noticeable difference that I think I've PM'd Alan before (for his fastidious records) is that the 78's don't have the roll bar welded nutserts in the rear C pillar panel.
I'm proud it's a 280z, slightly thicker gauge steel to weld and work on, a little stiffer (and heavier of a chassis), an L28 to work with. Sure it took some work to get it looking how I wanted, but it's coming along. Every single person who has walked passed my garage has said 'nice 240' most people forget there was the 260 and 280.
My build thread is here - http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/86608/1978-datsun-major-progress-update?page=32
Happy to answer any questions.