240Z carbon fibre panels

[JFPW3097]

Hi,

Recently I tried contacting retro-spec over in the states regarding some carbon fibre parts. I'm aware of their bad reputation, and after trying to contact them multiple times with poor or no response I've given up.

However, the past weeks I have been looking into potentially making these panels myself. Composite work is something I'm keen to get into, and I've yet to find anybody in the UK that produces composite parts for the 240Z, aside from the Seibon bonnet (correct me if I'm wrong.)

I plan to make full carbon fibre parts of the following:
- Headlight buckets
- Fenders
- Scuttle/cowl panel
- Rear hatch
- Tail light panels
- Doors

Regardless of interest, I will be producing these parts for my own 240Z as I am trying to lighten the car further. I have already planned and drawn up how I will go about producing these parts, and their moulds. Provided the moulds come out well then I can reproduce the parts for others, so if there is any interest let me know.

I'll continue to post on here with progress for those that are interested in the post. Probably won't start anything serious until after Christmas, but will likely start with the tail light panels first as they will likely be in the least challenging, followed by the headlight buckets and possibly the scuttle panel. Just need to free up some space!

Any questions feel free to ask,


J

 

[SeanDezart]

FRP Automotive make a big range of fibre-glass parts/panels but not CF.

Well done for thinking along these lines - I'm sure that there are people interested - if you're going to market your parts, get on FB !

 

[uk66fastback]

Got any pics of your car as it is currently JFPW? Always interested in owners taking on stuff like this - will be interesting to see the level of stuff you can produce. What are your facilities and you must be involved in this kind of stuff as a job, yes?

 

[racer]

I'm interested to see where this goes.

 

[JFPW3097]

Got any pics of your car as it is currently JFPW? Always interested in owners taking on stuff like this - will be interesting to see the level of stuff you can produce. What are your facilities and you must be involved in this kind of stuff as a job, yes?

I will take some pictures of my car and upload them, but currently, it is on a rotisserie being soda-blasted by myself. Slow progress unfortunately as I had some air compressor issues followed by some pretty poor weather, made it a little difficult to continue. However, I am looking at getting a 5mx3m outdoor car tent so, in the New Year, I'll be back at it. I'll post pictures of the progress.

As for the CF parts, I have no experience with CF in the past it is purely something that interests me. I have spent much of my time researching heavily into the process of making the parts, however, I am no professional by any means and it will be a case of trial and error. This is why I plan to start with simple panels, get my process and techniques properly honed prior to tackling larger parts. I'll be making all the parts using the Resin Infusion method, as I currently don't have access to an autoclave. I won't sell parts if I do not think they are up to standard, CF parts are expensive and quality should be to a high level.

I am not involved with composites at work, currently, I work at McLaren Automotive on the production line as an Apprentice Manufacturing Engineer. There are people I can speak to if I am ever in doubt or have questions regarding composites parts. Currently, my bigger issue is making space to start making moulds, not much room in my garage with the car on its rotisserie! I am also only 21, which may deter people but I feel it is important to mention as you've asked about my experience, which at my age isn't going to be huge.

Regards,

Jamie

 

[Ian]

I've seen very few carbon parts where the quality is good, if you were able to make top quality parts then I'm sure there would be interest. Retro spec service sucks and the only part i have from them is not very good quality, can't speak for their other parts.


Are you meaning full carbon or just FRP with a carbon skin as the top layer?



Also I wouldn't bother with doors, IMO only an idiot would run carbon doors unless they have a full cage with proper door bars.

 

[JFPW3097]

I've seen very few carbon parts where the quality is good, if you were able to make top quality parts then I'm sure there would be interest. Retro spec service sucks and the only part i have from them is not very good quality, can't speak for their other parts.


Are you meaning full carbon or just FRP with a carbon skin as the top layer?



Also I wouldn't bother with doors, IMO only an idiot would run carbon doors unless they have a full cage with proper door bars.

I will be running a full cage in my 240Z regardless, so it's not an issue for me. I don't see the issue with running carbon doors, we use them at work on the Ultimate Series cars like the Senna, however, they are reinforced by the carbon tub. Regardless, I will likely give them a go and I suspect some will be interested. There are no laws prohibiting the use of them, and the ones I have seen for sale for other cars are recommended for Off-road use only, purely because they haven't been crashed tested for road use... However, I'm sure they would hold up, provided they are made and reinforced correctly.

I've seen plenty of carbon parts with exceptional quality, just depends if the manufacturer knows what they're doing and takes their time. As long as the moulds are good, and there is minimal air drawn into the parts at the resin infusion stage there should be no issues. I'll be tackling the tail light panels after Christmas, so watch this space!

 

[Ian]

I will be running a full cage in my 240Z regardless, so it's not an issue for me. I don't see the issue with running carbon doors, we use them at work on the Ultimate Series cars like the Senna, however, they are reinforced by the carbon tub.

If you do see the issues running one in an old stock cageless car you have a lot of reading to do. You can't compare anything like this to a mclaren, they were made from the ground up to have carbon doors and have a super strong carbon tub.

I've seen plenty of carbon parts with exceptional quality, just depends if the manufacturer knows what they're doing and takes their time.

Of course, there are many manufacturers out there that manufacture great quality carbon parts, but very few for Datsuns. Although, Top Stage Composites in Australia make good quality very lightweight parts from what I've seen. In Japan Marugen Shoukai make top quality FRP parts but don't really do any carbon parts. My Restored.JP bonnet is pretty decent quality and very light, but could still be better if I'm honest.

 

[JFPW3097]

If you do see the issues running one in an old stock cageless car you have a lot of reading to do. You can't compare anything like this to a mclaren, they were made from the ground up to have carbon doors and have a super strong carbon tub.



Of course, there are many manufacturers out there that manufacture great quality carbon parts, but very few for Datsuns. Although, Top Stage Composites in Australia make good quality very lightweight parts from what I've seen. In Japan Marugen Shoukai make top quality FRP parts but don't really do any carbon parts. My Restored.JP bonnet is pretty decent quality and very light, but could still be better if I'm honest.

I am fully aware of the differences between the cars; I'm not comparing them, but having built/worked on and handled doors on both cars, I am fairly certain the Datsun doors could be made in Carbon Fibre without it being such a safety issue.

It's something I'll continue to look into, but quite a few modern high performance cars use Aluminium door frames with plastic door skins/panels, and those with carbon doors aren't all designed from the ground up. The main difference is that modern cars have much chunkier doors, and are full of more components.

Like I said I'll continue to look into it. As for the other panels, I will be making them.

 

[Jimbo]

http://honeybournemouldings.co.uk/frontwings.html
these guys do quite a lot of grp parts for 240/260
maybe you could use some of their parts to create a mould from?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Just to pick-up on the door safety issue. I sat in a Nissan Fairlady Roadster on Friday and the biggest lasting impression was how close my side was to the outside of the car. Old cars offer so little protection to side impact.

On one of my trackdays in my 240Z I ended up sideways across the track between Avon Rise and Quarry Bend at Castle Combe. My teenage son was on the side facing oncoming cars and I remember thinking 'thank goodness I have a full cage with door bars'. Fortunately they all missed me.

I'm guessing that there would be little difference between the protection offered by the steel door of a Datsun Z and a carbon fibre one. I know a 260Z door is stronger (due to internal bracing) but I think we are very vulnerable in that type of collision. This is a condition we have to accept when driving a classic car in the same way as we don't have air-bags etc.

Dan may wish to give his opinion?

 

[uk66fastback]

Seriously, would a car with a cage like that in the top pic have been much help if it had suffered the impact that the white car suffered? Genuine question ...

Every Little Helps as a copywriter once wrote, but how much I don't know ...

 

[WazzaJB]

Seriously, would a car with a cage like that in the top pic have been much help if it had suffered the impact that the white car suffered? Genuine question ...

Every Little Helps as a copywriter once wrote, but how much I don't know ...

Pictures 1 & 2 could be the same car? Looking closely it seems that part of the cage has been cut out to free the driver.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Pictures 1 & 2 could be the same car? Looking closely it seems that part of the cage has been cut out to free the driver.

Correct that's Dan's car! Thank goodness he had a cage. But my point is would there be any difference to the result, steel or CF? The amazing thing is the door is reasonably straight!

 

[WazzaJB]

Correct that's Dan's car! Thank goodness he had a cage. But my point is would there be any difference to the result, steel or CF? The amazing thing is the door is reasonably straight!

It's bizarre how the door is so straight! The cage doesn't appear to have done a fat lot?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

I reckon the cage saved Dan's life. Dan where are you?

 

[IbanezDan51]

Sorry,

Yes the cage definitely saved my life, it took all the impact force and folded up, up over my seat (which were also in my eyes a very good factor in me still being here) the high seat sides took a lot of impact.

The f/g door did absolutely nothing other than cover me in splintered shards of fibreglass from the inner panel splitting apart.

All factory steel doors have a reinforcement brace going across inside on the 240Z from what I’ve seen and whilst not up to the standards of a modern car it’s better than nothing! I think they just bulked it up in the later S30’s.

Totally agree with what Ian said above. You won’t catch me using any fibreglass parts on my cars again, especially without a cage...

Dan

 

[IbanezDan51]

Seriously, would a car with a cage like that in the top pic have been much help if it had suffered the impact that the white car suffered? Genuine question ...

Every Little Helps as a copywriter once wrote, but how much I don't know ...

I bet you that blue car got hit with less force than my car did. The S30 is absolutely awful for side impact protection.

 

[IbanezDan51]

Oh and to comment again how much force went into my car to make that little dent, it completely pulled the cage out of several reinforced sections of the floor pans around the car... literally tore the car apart but kept what was inside it straight (ish)

 

[uk66fastback]

Sorry, I obviously didn't look close enough - now I see the white car has the cage - blame old eyes and the lateness of the hour ...

I thought the white car was just an example of an S30 that had taken a side impact.

Well, it looks like it did its job then, thank god.