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240Z Brake Upgrades.....
- Thread starter Mr.G
- Start date
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
now when did you ever hear me moan about things 
i'm the most placid and easy going guy in the world
i'm the most placid and easy going guy in the world
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
Originally posted by MrG240Z
yeah that's true Steve
What brake mods do you have then? Please don't say ask Mike
None thats the end of my imput to this tech thread
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
any thing to make the site look busy
wish there was more smillies
wish there was more smillies
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
not sure but if I didn't it makes for more fun
oh and and would be good to see your greatness there
oh and and would be good to see your greatness there
The Z Farm
Active Forum User
Hi George - good question !
I always wondered when we'd be looking at upgrades on the 240Z/260Z Brakes. The standard ones are OK for the pottering-about-town brigade, but when you start to use the car as it should be used, the 30-year old design starts to be shown up by the modern Hatches.
If you define the Problem correctly, then you can begin to look at the possible solutions.
The standard solid discs simply produce too much heat when used hard and often. This manifests itself in boiling of the brake fluid ( which gives brake fade ), and/or glazing of the pad material, which then doesn't work properly thereafter.
So, the real solution is to change to vented discs, but when the Budget is tight, you could start with trying the excellent standard Nissan Pads or the US aftermarket ones that MJP supply for the front, which start to make things better.
Remember that more than 75% of any vehicle's braking is done by the front brakes; simple dynamics of the Vehicle's mass mean that most of the downward weight acts on the front end which does most of the stopping work.
The ideal thing to do, and especially necessary when doing any Track Day or Competition work, is to change to a Vented Disc/4-pot caliper set-up. This dissipates the heat build-up, and is the only really effective way of solving the problem, and results in braking equivalent to any modern 2wd car ( ABS stuff excepted ).
Any ideas about fitting just bigger ( 4-pot ) calipers are useless - it just makes the things even hotter, and will warp the discs very quickly, so forget the Toyota Hilux conversion.
The same goes for just fitting harder pads ( e.g. from the Capri 2.8 ); the discs will last about a week before being finished.
The solution :-
A few alternatives for the 4-pot Caliper/Vented disc Conversion :
1) Dave Jarman at DJ Road & Race has engineered a very neat Willwood alloy Caliper & Vented disc set, complete with brackets, flexihoses, pads, etc, ready for an easy fit in one afternoon.
I think around £550 or so, but well worth it, as it really does the trick with no further machining to do.
2) You can use the early ( pre-73) Range Rover 4-pot Calipers with a 5 mm alloy spacer + Peugeot 505GTI Vented discs machined with the Datsun PCD stud holes. This fits straight on to the Z hubs with a little drilling of the mounting holes. It then needs new flexihoses & a T-piece to connect to the original brake lines. You will spend about £300 on parts - assuming Recon calipers ( don't bother with s/hand), and you can also get excellent Competition Pads from Mintex to suit.
The only problem with this option is that the calipers are cast iron and heavier that the Willwood stuff, but is MSA Regulations legal.
Both the above will require 10mm wheel spacers to clear 14" wheels, but not with 15" sets.
With either of these, it is recommended that the Brake fluid be changed to Racing-spec stuff which has a higher boiling point, but is dearer and needs changing every year as it is absorbs moisture and goes 'off'.
With these setups fitted, you could blast up and down Alpine passes all day long without any brake fade.
The rear drums will work pretty well as standard as long as they are working correctly, and brake cylinders and linings are in good fettle, and the only way to justify the expense of conversion to the early 280ZX Disc kit is for Competition use, where you play with the front-rear balance.
The fitting of a 280ZX master cylinder will reduce the pressure required at the pedal end, but in itself does not improve the braking performance.
Sure there will be more variations on this theme ; let's hear them !
I always wondered when we'd be looking at upgrades on the 240Z/260Z Brakes. The standard ones are OK for the pottering-about-town brigade, but when you start to use the car as it should be used, the 30-year old design starts to be shown up by the modern Hatches.
If you define the Problem correctly, then you can begin to look at the possible solutions.
The standard solid discs simply produce too much heat when used hard and often. This manifests itself in boiling of the brake fluid ( which gives brake fade ), and/or glazing of the pad material, which then doesn't work properly thereafter.
So, the real solution is to change to vented discs, but when the Budget is tight, you could start with trying the excellent standard Nissan Pads or the US aftermarket ones that MJP supply for the front, which start to make things better.
Remember that more than 75% of any vehicle's braking is done by the front brakes; simple dynamics of the Vehicle's mass mean that most of the downward weight acts on the front end which does most of the stopping work.
The ideal thing to do, and especially necessary when doing any Track Day or Competition work, is to change to a Vented Disc/4-pot caliper set-up. This dissipates the heat build-up, and is the only really effective way of solving the problem, and results in braking equivalent to any modern 2wd car ( ABS stuff excepted ).
Any ideas about fitting just bigger ( 4-pot ) calipers are useless - it just makes the things even hotter, and will warp the discs very quickly, so forget the Toyota Hilux conversion.
The same goes for just fitting harder pads ( e.g. from the Capri 2.8 ); the discs will last about a week before being finished.
The solution :-
A few alternatives for the 4-pot Caliper/Vented disc Conversion :
1) Dave Jarman at DJ Road & Race has engineered a very neat Willwood alloy Caliper & Vented disc set, complete with brackets, flexihoses, pads, etc, ready for an easy fit in one afternoon.
I think around £550 or so, but well worth it, as it really does the trick with no further machining to do.
2) You can use the early ( pre-73) Range Rover 4-pot Calipers with a 5 mm alloy spacer + Peugeot 505GTI Vented discs machined with the Datsun PCD stud holes. This fits straight on to the Z hubs with a little drilling of the mounting holes. It then needs new flexihoses & a T-piece to connect to the original brake lines. You will spend about £300 on parts - assuming Recon calipers ( don't bother with s/hand), and you can also get excellent Competition Pads from Mintex to suit.
The only problem with this option is that the calipers are cast iron and heavier that the Willwood stuff, but is MSA Regulations legal.
Both the above will require 10mm wheel spacers to clear 14" wheels, but not with 15" sets.
With either of these, it is recommended that the Brake fluid be changed to Racing-spec stuff which has a higher boiling point, but is dearer and needs changing every year as it is absorbs moisture and goes 'off'.
With these setups fitted, you could blast up and down Alpine passes all day long without any brake fade.
The rear drums will work pretty well as standard as long as they are working correctly, and brake cylinders and linings are in good fettle, and the only way to justify the expense of conversion to the early 280ZX Disc kit is for Competition use, where you play with the front-rear balance.
The fitting of a 280ZX master cylinder will reduce the pressure required at the pedal end, but in itself does not improve the braking performance.
Sure there will be more variations on this theme ; let's hear them !
STEVE BURNS
Club Member
this is detracting from Z Farms excellent reply but what do you mean "a female Mr Burns" I'll give you a slap tommow
Black Bug
Well-Known Forum User
Perhaps similar to Dave Jarmans conversion is the one from Arizona Z cars that has caught my eye. There's a couple of pics they sent me in my gallery.
Duncan, does Dave Jarmans kit use bigger discs than standard? The Arizona Z conversion uses 12.2" vented.
Cheers,
Rob
Duncan, does Dave Jarmans kit use bigger discs than standard? The Arizona Z conversion uses 12.2" vented.
Cheers,
Rob
zbloke
Club Member
Brake Upgrade
Many years ago I got a brake kit from BG Developments , which consisted of modified Range Rover calipers with flat plate race discs mounted onto alloy bells, which served me well for quite some time, when the discs became worn I purchased a pair of discs, Peugeot 505 GTI ? already redrilled to fit the Datsun hubs from Kevin Irons, with a little grinding to the Range Rover calipers to allow the new, much wider, discs to fit and having some new spacers made to centralise the calipers to the new discs it was a pretty easy job to get them on, the braking is great, using Green Stuff pads, next mod to the braking system may be a proportioning valve in the front to rear brake line to allow a little more braking effort to the standard rear drums
Tim
Many years ago I got a brake kit from BG Developments , which consisted of modified Range Rover calipers with flat plate race discs mounted onto alloy bells, which served me well for quite some time, when the discs became worn I purchased a pair of discs, Peugeot 505 GTI ? already redrilled to fit the Datsun hubs from Kevin Irons, with a little grinding to the Range Rover calipers to allow the new, much wider, discs to fit and having some new spacers made to centralise the calipers to the new discs it was a pretty easy job to get them on, the braking is great, using Green Stuff pads
, next mod to the braking system may be a proportioning valve in the front to rear brake line to allow a little more braking effort to the standard rear drumsTim
zcar
Forum User
George,
We did the range rover/pug conversion on my old 260 some years ago and it made a world of difference, just ask Rob Hughes!!! Also will depend on the pads you use.
We also put 330mm diamter vented discs with willwood 4 pots on our 240ZG race car and that was even better. Then to top it all, we engineered the 280zx disc set up onto the back of a 240 using some specially machined mountings. I am sure some of the Cheshire Plainz mob took some piccies of that.
Just my 2 penneth!
Nick
We did the range rover/pug conversion on my old 260 some years ago and it made a world of difference, just ask Rob Hughes!!! Also will depend on the pads you use.
We also put 330mm diamter vented discs with willwood 4 pots on our 240ZG race car and that was even better. Then to top it all, we engineered the 280zx disc set up onto the back of a 240 using some specially machined mountings. I am sure some of the Cheshire Plainz mob took some piccies of that.
Just my 2 penneth!
Nick
Zeeeeeeeeeee
I have just fitted a set of willwood brakes that Dave jarman supplies,they are shit hot,i still have a 280zx master cylinder to go on so should be even better,i also changed my rear shoes and cylinders while i was about it,not worth sodding about with the other things that are suppose to fit as by the time you have them overhauled there probably isnt much difference in price.
I have just fitted a set of willwood brakes that Dave jarman supplies,they are shit hot,i still have a 280zx master cylinder to go on so should be even better,i also changed my rear shoes and cylinders while i was about it,not worth sodding about with the other things that are suppose to fit as by the time you have them overhauled there probably isnt much difference in price.
The Z Farm
Active Forum User
Hi Black Bug - sorry to be slow to reply.
The DJ Road & Race setup uses discs of about the same as the Peugeot 505GTI - 10.75". Well big enough for Road & Track use, and if you go any bigger diameter, you'll need to go to 15" wheels at least.
And the 280ZX Rear disc job is a bit expensive and unnecessary for Road use - new Calipers are about £185 each + Discs +bracket from Kevin Bristow @ £135 + pads + flexihoses.
The DJ Road & Race setup uses discs of about the same as the Peugeot 505GTI - 10.75". Well big enough for Road & Track use, and if you go any bigger diameter, you'll need to go to 15" wheels at least.
And the 280ZX Rear disc job is a bit expensive and unnecessary for Road use - new Calipers are about £185 each + Discs +bracket from Kevin Bristow @ £135 + pads + flexihoses.
symon260z
Well-Known Forum User
HI guys,
I maybe a novice in the Z world but I modified a set of Mintex M1155 pads (originally intended for the rear of an XJ6), fitted them to my standard 260Z refurbed brakes & bleed thru some 551 AP race luid . I´ve done 2 track days with this lot & the cars brakes superbly. I brake past the 100 meter board from flat out 208 km/h ( radar checked) to 115 km/h at the end of my local circuit lap after lap. I´m not going to change anything I think the trick is in the M1155 pads & the brake fluid.
I maybe a novice in the Z world but I modified a set of Mintex M1155 pads (originally intended for the rear of an XJ6), fitted them to my standard 260Z refurbed brakes & bleed thru some 551 AP race luid . I´ve done 2 track days with this lot & the cars brakes superbly. I brake past the 100 meter board from flat out 208 km/h ( radar checked) to 115 km/h at the end of my local circuit lap after lap. I´m not going to change anything I think the trick is in the M1155 pads & the brake fluid.
Legendary5
Well-Known Forum User
How about a vented disk from an early Nissan 300ZX, the one with the four hole setting. They are reasonable cheap and can be orderd at your local Nissan dealer. Then buy a Toyota calliper, the Wide ones, from a pick up. I have to look which one. You need a spacer but that is all. The calliper fits because it is coming for the same manufacturer.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
I had vented 280 discs on my old 240 with the hardened pads and they were just enough for the mildly tuned engine (180 bhp). Anything above that and the Wilwood option seems to be the dogs...... never heard any complaints ! It's what's going on my new one with completely overhauled standard rear drums - more than adequate for the road and a few circuit days in the year. If anyone is really serious about circuits then DJR reccomends the Ford Cossie rear vented disc set...
I've always heard that, yes, the Range Rover set up works ok -as per the Toyota Hilux but is extremely heavy and loses efficacity as a result.
Symon, your brake set up may be ok for the 'safe' braking into corners on a circuit but have you ever braked down from a fast two lane road in order to enter a roundabout - can be scary if the set up is ok but on the limit ?
I've always heard that, yes, the Range Rover set up works ok -as per the Toyota Hilux but is extremely heavy and loses efficacity as a result.
Symon, your brake set up may be ok for the 'safe' braking into corners on a circuit but have you ever braked down from a fast two lane road in order to enter a roundabout - can be scary if the set up is ok but on the limit ?