Can I ask a question?

Albrecht

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Can I ask a question?

A friend of mine in Japan recently got sent a copy of the Z Club of GB magazine. He collects club magazines from around the world. I think he bought it from eBay.

He noticed in this magazine that a list of members' cars had been published, along with the breakdown in numbers of said model types. He noticed that there were two "240ZG" models listed, as well as a "260ZG".

This puzzled him. As far as he was aware, there is only one genuine factory-built HS30-H model 'Fairlady 240ZG' in the UK, and it is not actually owned by a member of the club. So where are these club-sanctioned '240ZGs', and who owns them?

He was also scratching his head about the "260ZG", as there was no such factory model released for sale to the general public. Curious.

Is this actually just the Z Club of GB playing fast and loose with the true identity of member cars?

Not being a club member, I haven't seen the magazine in question - so I could not give him a definitive answer.

Anybody know the answer? :conf2:
 
Albrecht said:
Can I ask a question?

A friend of mine in Japan recently got sent a copy of the Z Club of GB magazine. He collects club magazines from around the world. I think he bought it from eBay.

He noticed in this magazine that a list of members' cars had been published, along with the breakdown in numbers of said model types. He noticed that there were two "240ZG" models listed, as well as a "260ZG".

This puzzled him. As far as he was aware, there is only one genuine factory-built HS30-H model 'Fairlady 240ZG' in the UK, and it is not actually owned by a member of the club. So where are these club-sanctioned '240ZGs', and who owns them?

He was also scratching his head about the "260ZG", as there was no such factory model released for sale to the general public. Curious.

Is this actually just the Z Club of GB playing fast and loose with the true identity of member cars?

Not being a club member, I haven't seen the magazine in question - so I could not give him a definitive answer.

Anybody know the answer? :conf2:
Click to expand...

Alan whats this to do with Silverstone ?
 
datsun dave said:
Alan whats this to do with Silverstone ?
Click to expand...

Well Dave,
If any one of these two "240ZGs" or a "260ZG" are going to show up for the Silverstone parade, then I might turn up myself to watch.

That I gotta see, as they say.

:)
 
Al'

I'm sure you already know the answer to that one, as per the fairly recent discussion on Clive Standish's old car changing hands.
I'm sure the "260ZG" will be that of Colin Shipway (wouldn't surprise me if there's a "280ZXG" in there somewhere too).
What magazine edition is it ?
 
Albrecht said:
Not being a club member, I haven't seen the magazine in question - so I could not give him a definitive answer.
Click to expand...


There be your answer Alan.:rolleyes: :D no fighting talk now!:D
 
Albrecht said:
Not being a club member, I haven't seen the magazine in question - so I could not give him a definitive answer.
Click to expand...

Become a member - fight the good fight from the inside !:rolleyes:
 
zedhead260 said:
I'm sure you already know the answer to that one, as per the fairly recent discussion on Clive Standish's old car changing hands.
Click to expand...

Sadly, you are right. I do indeed already know the answer to the main part of my question, and was able to tell my friend the truth. There are no members of the Z Club of GB that own genuine factory HS30-H 'Fairlady 240ZG' models. That there was no such thing as a "260ZG" model sold to the general public should speak for itself, but does not explain why a marque-dedicated club should claim to have one in its ranks.

I'm sure 99.9% of members could not care less one way or the other, but - speaking as an outsider again here - I don't think they are the only people you should worry about. I think a UK-based marque/model-dedicated club should be leading the way in getting this kind of thing right.

I guess it is up to each individual member to decide what they want to call their own car, but this should not mean that the owners club should give this a stamp of authority and implied approval by publishing such half truths on a written list of member cars.

And if you think this is a lot of fuss over nothing, have you considered the issues of proper insurance valuation and DVLA data? If any of those "240ZG" and "260ZG" owners are misrepresenting their cars to insurance companies or to the DVLA, then the whole thing becomes a lot more serious. What about accurate appraisals by the club's own valuation officer? Have they been honest and truthful? Sounds to me like some doubt could be cast on them if the club itself is misrepresenting the vehicles owned by some of its members...........

As I've pointed out on this forum before now, one cannot create a '240ZG' by attaching a set of genuine factory-made ZG-specific parts to an 'ordinary' 240Z, let alone a set of knock-off parts. In Japan it is illegal to pass off a car as a '240ZG' if it did not leave the factory as one ( all sales descriptions, insurance declarations and ownership documents have to clearly state that it is a replica or modified car ). The ( serious ) owners clubs in Japan would never knowingly sanction such activity either.

I have absolutely NO problem with accurate, tasteful and well-intentioned replicas, as long as nobody is claiming or implying that they are The Real Thing. I certainly won't be doing that with the PZR replica that I am building.

If this kind of issue is not brought up for debate from inside the club, then I'm afraid it is outsiders like me that will have to bring it to your attention.

This is not club knocking for the sake of it ( even if some people will be happy to take the easy lazy option and decide that it is ). I think this needs to be brought to the attention of the club, and debated within the club to find a solution.
 
Albrecht makes some very good points, from my understanding he is saying that if we accept that a members car is a certain model then we are in fact endorsing it and giving the misinformation credibility.

The problem is that no one in the club has time to check and verify the details, and it really is up to the owner to give an accurate description.

Of course for insurance and DVLA matters, the owness is on the owner to give an accurate description of what he or she owns. We do not have a legal write to demand accurate information, unlike the gov. organisations who can impose a heavy fine/possibly prison for any attempt to mislead.

The information is only as accurate as the accuracy of those supplying it, we could rewrite the forms and ask people to be accurate but if someone wants to call their car an apple when it is a pear, it is very hard to police.

In the meantime I guess we have to make do with the data we have and maintain an open mind to certain categories of vehicles, especially if they are very rare. Better to have some data then no data, at least the information can be looked into deeper and verified if need be.
 
I have data relating to that, but if you are a member of The Z Club of GB I suggest that you might like to ask the club's insurance valuations officer, or the person(s) who are 'authenticating' the two "240ZGs" that club members are claiming to own.
 
Hi Alan
do you know which edition of the Z Club magazine this was printed in?
Thanks
 
i do currently own a orginal 240zg which at the momentsits in chiba tokyo japan cost £15.000 maroon late 1972 not mint but good condition and complete arrive june onlly done 40.000 app gen one owner have photo will send editor some asap 752
 
Albrecht said:
Sadly, you are right. I do indeed already know the answer to the main part of my question, and was able to tell my friend the truth. There are no members of the Z Club of GB that own genuine factory HS30-H 'Fairlady 240ZG' models. That there was no such thing as a "260ZG" model sold to the general public should speak for itself, but does not explain why a marque-dedicated club should claim to have one in its ranks.
Click to expand...

Why not ? Where is the harm ? Do you feel that your car and replica (s ?) will be valued (and I don't mean financially) lower, lower in esteem in fact because there are other cars that are known, however erroneously by incorrect titles ?

Albrecht said:
I'm sure 99.9% of members could not care less one way or the other, but - speaking as an outsider again here - I don't think they are the only people you should worry about. I think a UK-based marque/model-dedicated club should be leading the way in getting this kind of thing right.
Click to expand...

You don't think that the club "one club - all the cars" should worry about 99.9% of its' members , But you do think that it should worry about the opinions of one non-member ? All said, it won't hurt to amend the clubs' records and mag. articles to show a 260Z and 240Z with a replica G-nose body-kit :)

Albrecht said:
And if you think this is a lot of fuss over nothing, have you considered the issues of proper insurance valuation and DVLA data? If any of those "240ZG" and "260ZG" owners are misrepresenting their cars to insurance companies or to the DVLA, then the whole thing becomes a lot more serious. What about accurate appraisals by the club's own valuation officer? Have they been honest and truthful? Sounds to me like some doubt could be cast on them if the club itself is misrepresenting the vehicles owned by some of its members...........
Click to expand...

Now really ! Who cares ? Assured value, inspected, one could call a 240Z a Z432 and the insurance company wouldn't know it from a 280ZX ! Get real Count and don't dispel disillusionment on some very fine volunteers who've helped Z owners down the years to attain agreed values and therefore keep the Z scene alive (nothing worse than tiny values to induce people to scrap their cars) !

Albrecht said:
As I've pointed out on this forum before now, one cannot create a '240ZG' by attaching a set of genuine factory-made ZG-specific parts to an 'ordinary' 240Z, let alone a set of knock-off parts. In Japan it is illegal to pass off a car as a '240ZG' if it did not leave the factory as one ( all sales descriptions, insurance declarations and ownership documents have to clearly state that it is a replica or modified car ). The ( serious ) owners clubs in Japan would never knowingly sanction such activity either.

I have absolutely NO problem with accurate, tasteful and well-intentioned replicas, as long as nobody is claiming or implying that they are The Real Thing. I certainly won't be doing that with the PZR replica that I am building.
Click to expand...

Ooh, the serious Clubs in Japan ! Well, we all know we've been tarnished as tuning louts by a well-known non-member so again - maybe it's too late or you should persuade from the inside. Help with the archives to get the UK story correct - assist the insurance valuer in cases of authenticity doubt - there are lots of ways you could redress the damage started by Botnar and not at all assisted by the then anti-Japanese biased press !

Albrecht said:
If this kind of issue is not brought up for debate from inside the club, then I'm afraid it is outsiders like me that will have to bring it to your attention.

This is not club knocking for the sake of it ( even if some people will be happy to take the easy lazy option and decide that it is ). I think this needs to be brought to the attention of the club, and debated within the club to find a solution.
Click to expand...

Throwing out a hypothetical question on a forum (to which you already know the answer) where only a small percentage of that clubs' membership are active is a lazy, easy option :rolleyes: !

Sarcasm aside Count, you ARE club knocking which IS easy - changing things, actually being part of the machine that CAN influence takes more !
 
red baron said:
i do currently own a orginal 240zg which at the momentsits in chiba tokyo japan cost £15.000 maroon late 1972 not mint but good condition and complete arrive june onlly done 40.000 app gen one owner have photo will send editor some asap 752
Click to expand...

You lucky Baron!! Please post a pic here for us to drool over.
 
Oh cor blimey wind yer necks in the pair of you. Albrecht being a stickler for the truth is a good thing (I speak as a fully paid up pedant). Dangling hooks to catch the unwary is less good unless it is to catch a deliberate fraud. Also, please be sure of the source: is it a quote from the club or a quote from the DVLA statistics quoted in the mag? We don't know as this info has not yet been forthcoming.

If it is a quote from DVLA figures, well we have known for years that a) they are wrong and b) they're not bothered about it and c) neither are the SMMT. Frustrating, I know.

If the mistake is due to the club or member, then please remember that the majority of us don't have Albrecht's unparalleled knowledge and expertise. I would guess that if a mistake has been made, then it's probably just that, a mistake. And it is a good thing we have the Albrechts of this world to point out errors of fact. These things are important.

Yes, I'd prefer Albrecht (along with all other Z fans, experts or not) to be in this club but I'm not sure this sort of yah-boo-sucks is making a good case.

Chill out and Cheers All - Gio (nitpicker and pedant-in-training ;) )
 
Mate, this isn't about ya-boo-sucks ! Albrecht is a very knowledgable person, I along with many others have benfitted from his sharing of that knowledge.

That's not my complaint : without The Z Club, there wouldn't be a Z scene to criticise, and The Club was there well before the current, huge craze in Jap. cars - hell, we even held the first Jap Car Day and had it slagged off by Clarkson !

It may well be justified to criticise but I can't stand people, any people who do only that. Sure, criticise, but back it up with action !

What are you waiting for Count ? An honorary club membership ? Just join !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top