What Tyres Would You Recommend

[PHIL HYETT]

Mine Soon !! 240 Z G Nose V8 Powerd Car .

WELL VERY ENTERTAINING FROM SOME OF YOU . AND THANKS TO THE REST OF YOU Z CLUB MEMBERS . THE POINT IS IT IS STILL A VERY NICE CAR THAT NEEDS SOME NEW TYRES . AND I AM PROUD TO BE ITS NEXT OWNER . CALL THE CAR WHAT YOU WANT .I HOPE I LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO OWN THIS CAR 30 YEARS LIKE I HAVE OWNED MY OTHER 240 Z MODIFIED !!!!!!!!!! .WITH NON STANDARD WHEELS -ENGINE -INTERIOR-BRAKES ETC -ETC IS IT A 240 Z I DONT KNOW ANYMORE

PHIL

 

[ZHead]

Phil,

Taking a Devil's Advocate perspective here, Alan is bang on the money, no one should pass off a replica or lookey likey as real, however, neither you nor Mike have even vaguely attempted to do so. Mike is also right in so far as people cannot be bothered to make detailed distinctions every time.

The challenge is what do we call it ?

We cannot call it a replica because it isn't, there are too many innacuracies such as the skirts, moulded arches and rear spoiler.

We cannot call it a lookey likey because if you park it next to Alan's original one they look nothing like one another.

What we DO know is you have bought a unique car which is probably one of the most solid originally UK supplied 240s left. I for one would have liked it myself.

If we expect our cars to be taken seriously as classics and to become more desirable and expensive, we need to pay great attention to historical accuracy and nomenclature, however, there are not that many Z folk in the UK who want true historical accuracy.

Therein lies the nub of this, for 95% of UK Z owners, ZG is sufficient even as a generic term for a car like yours with aftermarket, similarly styled parts on. Try getting away with it in a Ferrari or Porsche club.......... they would have your n*ts

We could call it ZG influenced or ZGish, no matter - you have a cracking car.

Oh yes ....... tyres....... TOYOS...... round black ones.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law - you have it - you bought it - smile ......... you will get GREAT enjoyment out of this car !

 

[PHIL HYETT]

ZHead thanks some people take life to seriously .I just loved the car so i bought it . Tyres yes it is going to be TOYO . LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING UP IN THE FUTURE IN MY Z CAR

 

[Albrecht]

Alan is bang on the money...............

Ele-bloody-mentary my dear Watson.

.....no one should pass off a replica or lookey likey as real, however, neither you nor Mike have even vaguely attempted to do so.

That's not the way I see it. Look at this and tell me what you see:

Rear wing on the 240ZG V8 was......

He wrote "240ZG".
He didn't write '240Z'.
The car is a '240Z'.
The car is not a '240ZG'.
This is not rocket science, is it?

Why the urge to keep adding the 'G'? Just drop the bloody 'G' and nobody will get confused or misled. Simple.

If we expect our cars to be taken seriously as classics and to become more desirable and expensive, we need to pay great attention to historical accuracy and nomenclature, however, there are not that many Z folk in the UK who want true historical accuracy.

Let's just repeat that last bit again, shall we?:

.....there are not that many Z folk in the UK who want true historical accuracy.

My continuing impression is that - sadly - a lot of "Z folk" in this country are wilfully ignorant, and what's more they are proud of the fact. They wear it as a badge of honour and slap eachother on the back about it. There's very little indication of any thirst for knowledge.

Situation normal, then.

 

[ZHead]

ZHead thanks some people take life to seriously

It is a tough one to call whether it is actually "worth" being pedantic about the minutiae or not. Without a passion for historical accuracy, all sorts of ridiculous, almost offensive innacuracies occur like Hollywood's portrayal that the Americans captured and worked out the Enigma Machine and that Robin Hood had an American accent.....oh..... and that the Z is in fact an American car built in Japan.

I personally take offence at military innacuracies because Hollywood dismisses and dishonours people by rewriting history. Alan as we all know takes issue with innacuracy where Z nomenclature, model numbers and details are concerned.

Do not fall into the trap of thinking this is an anal crusade, Alan's passion for historical accuracy is borne out of respect for the cars, the people that designed and built them and the truth surrounding a very complicated situation where models were constantly evolving throughout the production process rather than having a defined series 1, series 2 and series 3 as some of our American friends would have us believe. (Although I doubt anyone in Nissan would have recognised series 1, 2 or 3 as meaning anything in relation to the S30)

Having spoken for Alan who is more than capable of speaking for himself I half expect to be shot down in flames now although I am being supportive

The reality is, other marques' clubs such as Ferrari, Porsche et al are incredibly specific when it comes to models and their variants. Their cars are percieved as high value, rare (or at the very least desirable) classics. The whole buzz in the marketplace is that they are something special, each model or variant having it's own foibles and character.

The Z world on the other hand often questions why a concours 240Z is still only worth 12K according to the magazines and has been for many years even though the car per se is actually better than many much more expensive classics of the period. Part of the reason is that we collectively do not pay attention to specifics like nomenclature and historical accuracy. There are people (un-named) but we all know who, who have tried to pass off an amalgamation of bits as genuine ex-works cars, so the market does not take us seriously. No two cars are the same, most having been modified in some way from the sublime (triples) to the ridiculous (V8s, Turbos, Skyline motors, Nitrous etc). The standard of a lot of the more recent rebuilds though seems to be going through the roof - people do seem to be spending much more time and money on doing the job right, that HAS to help our cause.

In short, one of the best ways to right the wrongs of bad reporting and bad authorship of books is to be meticulous in the use of correct model numbers, race car details etc. This will also help build the Z profile in classic car circles.

Personally I want a dirty great V8 with trick suspension and brakes, a decent paint job and a lot of fun..... I will not however be claiming that it is an original 240Z

In order that I do not get accused of going off topic .... FANTASTIC CAR .....BUY TOYOS.

 

[ZHead]

That's not the way I see it. Look at this and tell me what you see:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.F
Rear wing on the 240ZG V8 was......


He wrote "240ZG".
He didn't write '240Z'.
The car is a '240Z'.
The car is not a '240ZG'.
This is not rocket science, is it?

ACTUALLY he wrote "240ZG V8" not "240ZG"....... we all know that there is no such model as a "240ZG V8" so I would submit that the distinction had already been made. I wholeheartedly agree with you that under no circumstances should this car be sold as a 240ZG because it obviously isn't and to do so would be dishonest at best, fraudulent more likely.

The issue is not that it was passed off as real, it is more one of "what the hell do we call it ?" (This is on the basis that most people don't care, ZG is good enough)

I have recently seen a car advertised as "Samuri spec" which is the same problem - no two Samuri's were the same, some were done well, some were bodged, some drove better than others. So what should it be called ??

What would you suggest is the right concise term to use for Phil's car ?? That is apart from "the blue one ?" That is not a sarcastic question, more of a genuine "how should we refer to not original, not replica but similar cars ?"

 

[PHIL HYETT]

Albecht

Sorry i dont know your real name . I think that we get your points and correct as they might be . But you do not seem to be reading my threads you are so rapped up in making your point that you have forgoten the fact i was asking for advice on new tyres .I will still be calling it a 240 z g nose V8 as i will own the car right or wrong who cares .Just pleased to be the owner of two great cars .

Phil .

 

[ZHead]

The definitive answer :

I will still be calling it a 240 z g nose V8 as i will own the car right or wrong who cares - Phil .

Whatever you call it, right or wrong, it is a bit of a thing , has well known provenance, sounds great, should go well, and will upset many many Lax Power kids with their oh so bling Saxos.

What you need to remember is that the whole V8 thing started with Mike Feeney, Luke Borg, Richard Wills and Clive Standish. These cars and their owners pioneered the V8 swaps in this country.

Your 240Z V8G was one of the first

The rest of us have followed or are following ........................

 

[Mr.F]

What you need to remember is that the whole V8 thing started with Mike Feeney, Luke Borg, Richard Wills and Clive Standish. These cars and their owners pioneered the V8 swaps in this country.

Actually, Spike Anderson was building a V8 240Z at the same time that I was labouring in the garage with mine and his appeared first by a few months. This Samuri V8 became Luke's car and the basis of his first V8, although he and I were in regular contact throughout my build process, having discovered that we were both thinking along similar lines. Nothing much was left of the original Samuri V8 after Luke's rebuild...

There was another V8 built around the same time with bodywork by Nick Orme who also was responsible for the bodywork on Eddie Miller's 260Z 2+2.

In thse days we had an embryonic Z Club Parts Department, no MJP and no Z Centre...

 

[Albrecht]

Sorry i dont know your real name .

LOL. Just goes to show how much attention you have been paying to what has been written. But never mind, I'm not offended

But you do not seem to be reading my threads you are so rapped up in making your point that you have forgoten the fact i was asking for advice on new tyres .

Sorry. I was under the impression that you had decided on TOYOS ( back in post #63 ).

My advice ( from personal experience ) would be to give the Avon CR6ZZ a try. Their shape is much better suited to the suspension on your car than most of the square-shouldered tyres that are aimed at modern high performance cars and their more complex suspensions. Maybe something to think about?

Whatever tyres you go for, make sure that you ask for the right thing at the tyre shop. If you insist on calling them something other than what they are, then you might not get the right thing. Watch out for those inappropriate and irrelevant letters flying around uncontrollably; they can lead to all sorts of confusion.

I will still be calling it a 240 z g nose V8 as i will own the car right or wrong who cares .

To repeat myself, I wish you happiness and good luck with the car. However, I reserve the right to have a bit of a giggle at you if you ever call catch Mr.F's affliction and start calling it a "240ZG V8".

Have fun.

 

[Albrecht]

ACTUALLY he wrote "240ZG V8" not "240ZG"....... we all know that there is no such model as a "240ZG V8" so I would submit that the distinction had already been made.

You don't think "240ZG V8" implies a genuine 240ZG with a V8 transplant then?

I think the inference is quite clear. A car with aftermarket add-ons of debatable origin is being associated with a genuine factory model by the addition of the letter 'G'. This is the same letter that the factory used to name the genuine factory model. There's no coincidence in the letter chosen; it is quite clearly being used to imply association with the real thing. I don't care how innocently or frivolously this was done. The bald truth is that it is inaccurate, inappropriate and downright misleading.

What I find even more insidious is the fact that this is a quote from somebody who is the "Technical Advisor" to 'The Z Club'. Surely higher standards should be expected from somebody with such a title?

What would you suggest is the right concise term to use for Phil's car ?? That is apart from "the blue one ?" That is not a sarcastic question, more of a genuine "how should we refer to not original, not replica but similar cars ?"

To answer that question, let me ask a question in return. Of all the possible names, numbers and combinations thereof than could have been chosen for such a dramatically modified 'special', just why was "240ZG" a part of it? In my view there is only one possible reason; namely to get some reflected glory from a genuine, rare, limited production and non-exported factory model of the same name. That's the only possible conclusion that can be drawn.

You want a more appropriate suggestion for a name? How about calling it what it left the factory as - namely a UK-export market 'HS30' model 'Datsun 240Z'?









Other than that, how about "The Mullet"

 

[PHIL HYETT]

Do Not Patronise

Albrecht do not patronise me ! Hiding behind a web site it is not big and not clever .Have a giggle your attitude and manner does nothing for our club or this web site which you do not belong to .I am surprised with your obvious knowledge of Zs you could not put it to better use . A MULLET !
JUST SHOWS HOW CHILDISH YOU ARE . GROW UP . Work with the people who love there Zs not against them .Other wise keep your opinions to your self .I for one do not need your patronising comments they do nothing for this web site . You have so much to offer but you do not know how to use it . SHAME .
Phil Hyett .

 

[Albrecht]

Patronising?

.........your attitude and manner does nothing for our club or this web site which you do not belong to.

The free and easy attitude towards truth and historical accuracy demonstrated in this thread is one of the things that turns me away from the club. Unfortunately I don't see that mindset changing any time soon.

Personally I find it patronising that your car is being linked to a factory-built model inappropriately and misleadingly. Indeed, it seems to have been part of the sales pitch. I suspect the people who designed and built the original car might also feel patronised come to that.

I'm certainly not "hiding behind a web site" here; you are most welcome to come and talk to me face to face. I would look forward to walking around your car whilst you give me a running commentary, and explain to me why you feel justified in calling it what you do. However, Mohammed ( peace be upon him ) is going to have to come to the mountain, if you know what I mean.

.............right or wrong who cares .

Candidate for The Z Club motto?

 

[Mr.F]

If the moulds were indeed "derived from original ZG panels" then I'd be very interested to know the provenance and history of the original panels that the moulds were allegedly taken from.. I'm all ears. You might have to excuse me while I go and buy a large bag of salt, though .

How many original 240ZG models are there in the UK? How many of them passed through the Z Centre for restoration work? The panels from your very own car are the source of the Mk.2 G-nose moulds - bumper, cowls, bonnet to bumper filler piece and arches. Sadly the lower valence was never moulded and the Mk.1 lower section was adapted, otherwise U.K. 240Zs could have become more convincing replicas. Hopefully the resale value of salt remains high...

As to the rest of this, it is established that we both have a slightly different viewpoint, but essentially I accept your argument without being particularly repentent over a convenient abbreviation. However, flogging your side of the argument is now beginning to upset other members - slap my wrist in public a bit more if you must, but at least accept that your point has been made...

 

[Albrecht]

How many original 240ZG models are there in the UK? How many of them passed through the Z Centre for restoration work? The panels from your very own car are the source of the Mk.2 G-nose moulds - bumper, cowls, bonnet to bumper filler piece and arches.

I knew exactly what you were alluding to, Mike - hence my back was already up earlier on in this thread. I know a little bit more about this than you seem to think I do.......

You might or might not be aware that there was a question as to whether these mouldings were taken off of the car with the owners permission. But then, "....right or wrong, who cares" - right?

Sadly the lower valence was never moulded and the Mk.1 lower section was adapted, otherwise U.K. 240Zs could have become more convincing replicas. Hopefully the resale value of salt remains high...

I still need something more than a pinch of salt when reading about all of this. Some of the things you write make me think that smelling salts might also be handy on occasion.

".....could have become more convincing replicas......"

Ha ha ha! I spat out a mouthful of cornflakes when I read that. Thanks for making my morning.

THE MULLET!

 

[Mr.F]

You might or might not be aware that there was a question as to whether these mouldings were taken off of the car with the owners permission. But then, "....right or wrong, who cares" - right?

I was aware of the possible ramifications of permission - hence the delay in reply while I checked that the person who commissioned the moulds was OK with me making that statement. The intention was to demonstrate that there are more authentic G-nose panels available in the U.K. than you were implying when you criticise the Mk.1 version.

".....could have become more convincing replicas......"

Always glad to have brought joy into someone's life....