Sunday Super Scramble @ Bicester Heritage - 23rd JUNE 2019

[Albrecht]

I've sat in a GTX moded to a GTR spec...

In what way was it "GTR spec"?

 

[Robbie J]

he changes it around every so often. Last time I saw it, it was silver without badging or intercooler

it's the other guy that put in an RB DOHC into GTX. They were both at a JDM show a few years back

getting off track from Bicester

 

[Albrecht]

he changes it around every so often. Last time I saw it, it was silver without badging or intercooler

That's an oil cooler.

I'm not sure you realise just how far away that car is from what you are calling "GTR spec". It is - simply - nothing like it.

Nevertheless, it gets shown like this:

 

[Rob Gaskin]

found it

a bit more of the same, put the sound on high

Interesting what he said about the tyres at 3.32. I used to love the feeling my old car gave on 195s - it had understeer, oversteer and 4 wheel drifting depending on what you were doing with the steering and throttle. It spoke to me so much and also never 'broke away' - lovely.

 

[diksta]

Damn! Just seen this thread and kicking myself. Looks like a great event - would have loved to have been there. Next time!

 

[Albrecht]

Alan, can you educate me on how to tell the difference? and what the more standard version of the car is called?

I'd heard that it may have just had the badge fitted however this confirms. Pressume the genuine GTR's also had the S20 engine making them few and far between?

I'm not sure people realise just how different the PGC10 and KPGC10 models were from their sibling models. It was far more than a different engine and different badges. Big topic, but I'll try to give a brief explanation via the differences between a 'KGC10' model Skyline GT or GTX vs a 'KPGC10' model Skyline GT-R:

Here's what a KGc10 looked like on the showroom floor:


...and here's what a KPGC10 looked like on the showroom floor:


Parts/specs unique to the KPGC10:
GT-R-specific bodyshell with dedicated pressings and rear FRP 'overfenders'.
'S20' 2-litre twin cam 24-valve straight six engine with triple Mikuni N40PHH carburettors, stainless 6-branch tubular exhaust manifold, Mitsubishi CDI electronic ignition, twin exhaust system. Close ratio 5-speed O/D transmission. 4.44 ratio R192 differential with plate LSD. 'Fast' ratio steering box. Aluminium radiator. 100 litre fuel tank, electric fuel pump. GT-R-specific springs, dampers and anti roll bars. Clear, untinted glass. GT-R-specific front 'bucket' seats, dedicated interior trim pieces. 'Delete' items including exterior trim sections, hubcaps, radio & antenna, dipping interior mirror. GT-R-specific exterior mirrors and interior instrumentation/controls. 'TOPY' steel wheels and GT-R-specific tyres. That's just off the top of my head.

'KGC10' (note the missing 'P' code in the chassis prefix) GT and GTX models were fitted with the L20A 2-litre 12-valve SOHC engine (same basic family as - for example - L24) but GT had single downdraught carburettor and 4-speed transmission, whilst GTX had twin SU-type Hitachi carburettors and 5-speed transmission. GTX was essentially a full fat 'Deluxe' late model with all the typical bells and whistles, including electric windows.

If you look at the list of dedicated parts for the GT-R (and not forgetting the dedicated bodyshell itself) it makes it clear that talk of "converting to GT-R spec" is a nonsense. What we are talking about are ten-metre lookalikes dining out on the reputation and history of the genuine article.

 

[Jake RAH]

Damn! Just seen this thread and kicking myself. Looks like a great event - would have loved to have been there. Next time!

Hey how's it going? I hope you've sorted that fuel filler pipe to expansion tank issue out since the other week. It looked very dangerous to me If you need a diagram of how it should be set up let me know or see the Haynes manual page 43

 

[Woody928]

I'm not sure people realise just how different the PGC10 and KPGC10 models were from their sibling models. It was far more than a different engine and different badges. Big topic, but I'll try to give a brief explanation via the differences between a 'KGC10' model Skyline GT or GTX vs a 'KPGC10' model Skyline GT-R:

Here's what a KGc10 looked like on the showroom floor:
View attachment 33792 View attachment 33793

...and here's what a KPGC10 looked like on the showroom floor:
View attachment 33794 View attachment 33795

Parts/specs unique to the KPGC10:
GT-R-specific bodyshell with dedicated pressings and rear FRP 'overfenders'.
'S20' 2-litre twin cam 24-valve straight six engine with triple Mikuni N40PHH carburettors, stainless 6-branch tubular exhaust manifold, Mitsubishi CDI electronic ignition, twin exhaust system. Close ratio 5-speed O/D transmission. 4.44 ratio R192 differential with plate LSD. 'Fast' ratio steering box. Aluminium radiator. 100 litre fuel tank, electric fuel pump. GT-R-specific springs, dampers and anti roll bars. Clear, untinted glass. GT-R-specific front 'bucket' seats, dedicated interior trim pieces. 'Delete' items including exterior trim sections, hubcaps, radio & antenna, dipping interior mirror. GT-R-specific exterior mirrors and interior instrumentation/controls. 'TOPY' steel wheels and GT-R-specific tyres. That's just off the top of my head.

'KGC10' (note the missing 'P' code in the chassis prefix) GT and GTX models were fitted with the L20A 2-litre 12-valve SOHC engine (same basic family as - for example - L24) but GT had single downdraught carburettor and 4-speed transmission, whilst GTX had twin SU-type Hitachi carburettors and 5-speed transmission. GTX was essentially a full fat 'Deluxe' late model with all the typical bells and whistles, including electric windows.

If you look at the list of dedicated parts for the GT-R (and not forgetting the dedicated bodyshell itself) it makes it clear that talk of "converting to GT-R spec" is a nonsense. What we are talking about are ten-metre lookalikes dining out on the reputation and history of the genuine article.

Thanks for taking the time to explain Alan, a really interesting insight as always

 

[diksta]

Hey how's it going? I hope you've sorted that fuel filler pipe to expansion tank issue out since the other week. It looked very dangerous to me If you need a diagram of how it should be set up let me know or see the Haynes manual page 43

Hey! Err, no, I haven't - been trying to work out how to get the fuel gauge working first. I figured as long as I don't overfill it again, it'll be ok. Thanks for the reminder, though, you've shamed me in to getting it sorted out .

 

[datsfun]

Total C10-series Skyline production, 1968 through 1973 = 400,000+

Total C10-series Skyline GT-R models (PGC10 and KPGC10) 1969 through 1972 = 1,945

"You do the math".

The 95% I quoted above was just a figure of speech to illustrate the point that GT-R's are rare. Actually make that very rare.

Perhaps if we do the math of " survivors", we may reach the 95% ratio

 

[Jay.]

Just logged on, got called away for work so annoyingly couldn't make it - nice way to waste £44


Looks like a decent amount of Z's this time, hopefully I'll make it to the next one!

 

[diksta]

Hey how's it going? I hope you've sorted that fuel filler pipe to expansion tank issue out since the other week. It looked very dangerous to me If you need a diagram of how it should be set up let me know or see the Haynes manual page 43

FYI: So, after some investigation on this (excellent!) forum it turns out that the fuel expansion tank is a US feature only, not present on UK models - I checked, I don't have one at all. In the UK in the 70's, it appears, it wasn't a problem to vent your excess fuel straight out the wheel arch! So my current set up is as it should be, just need to avoid overfilling it.

 

[Fairlineguy]

Classic car weekly ran a photo of mine, Aidy,Mike’s cars in the 26th June issue

 

[Pondo]

For anyone that didn’t go I believe that the other s30s you can see about a few rows back are Hiro’s, Chris Vega, Jakes and Jon Bills.

.......As featured in Classic Car Weekly.