Z32 TT's in the Z Club Challenge

[importfairlady]

i'll be their for everyround this year as i'll be a dad in september so i won't get much of a chance to race after that!
i've had no chance to do any of the mods i wanted to do over the winter period as i've been focusing on the interior do the lack of change to the catagories mean i'll still be going up against slick pete? as you know appart from alterations to my induction and a single zorst i'm stock! i've dropped a second of my times in the last year but against the likes of pete's motor i'm screwed and not just in the launch time's and with more than a trophy at stake it'd just be personal times and not honors i'd be racing for! not that this is a great problem but as i've asked before it doesn't make total sense to me the definitions

 

[importfairlady]

how about a better definition of what modified is then? i've struggled to understand how i who has like i said have only a sard induction and hks exhaust can run against a car with custom blue flame exhaust, forged head, upgraded ecu, wider wheels, etc etc... , i would have thought that taking the head of and modifing the internals of an engine would be classed as modified. not that i'd want to run against jim as i'd lose but the line between stock and modified seems extreme.

i understand that if we took it to extremes then i would totally win the 'slightly modified black veilside venom 300zx' class but at the same time i'd prefer to have a stunning looking stock zed that goes well, don't get me wrong pete's a great guy and he is fast but he does drive a shell! i ran a 15.6 and still had room to drive 3 of us home!

i like everyone want to atleast be competetive but also own a great zed, i won't be running nos this year but i'm also not going to use the rules to my advantage and stick to within an nth' of a degree to reach the top of my class. what do you think?

 

[nismo550tt]

Still unhappy about the class system because i run nitrous means i could go up against a z32 tt running nitrous or a 240 running nitrous which means it is pointless in my taking part as i have no chance of competing against these i really think the class system needs to be reworked in order to make this competition fair for example why not have z32 N/A standard and Z32 N/A modified and the same for the rest of the models it can be argued that "oh your running nitrous so your cheating" but there is nothing stopping anyone else from fitting nitrous if they want to compete in the modified catagree to the same standard to put me up against different models of zed just because i have nitrous is unfair

I agree with what your saying about more classes but unless we get lots more cars entering as said above me everyone would have their own classes,

i dont see nitrous as "cheating" but i do think it's a choice you made,there are plenty other ways to extract power from a 3.0 v6 quad cam???

nos is well know to be a tuning upgrade that crosses the lines of any competition as does slicks,i'm sure you knew that before installing it.

Paul.

 

[Bantambunny]

well mine was running badly last time with stock everything and i got 14.989

I've now got decats and a stainless exhaust fitted, replaced the faulty sensor and changing the underdrive pulley to an unorthodox one.

I'm hoping for mid 14s maybe less *fingers crossed*

No NOS or anything else, i'm going for turning up as much as i can and reaction time to get some points lol

 

[SKiddell]

Still unhappy about the class system because i run nitrous

Your missing the point, the drag challenge is a point based system

based mainly upon attendance and reaction time

Neither of these are influenced by Nos, Turbo's, solar flares, asteroids or indeed flux capicitors

The state of tune of your car and its designation determine which group you are in, and this then biases the point further.

The rules were designed to hypotheticaly allow a stock car to win the challenge and mid way through last season it was working, that was until the then leader decided to not bother coming anymore.

So JimJitsu, quit winging and start launching

Now the group thing is a little differant but still bound generally by attendance so turn up more than the other guy and the odds are you will win.

And dont forget the prize money....you guys missed out on a wedge just because you couldnt get up early on a Sunday

 

[importfairlady]

so what do you class as modified?

i've a veilside bodykit is this modified?

if i were to fit forged pistons would this be modified?

if i were to run super high octane fuel would this make me modified?

how about bigger injectors?

maybe twin turbo proshaft?

i understand the line must be drawn but i struggle to understand where its been drawn.

i'm an n/a auto so not the quickest of cars in the first place but i do good enough to make me happy at the moment, and next season i will probably be alot more prepaired with a purpose built zed but this season my car will be a car, please don't think of this post in anyway as a bad thing as like i said before pete is a great guy and i look forward to racing him but you must say that his zed is more of a drag car than a road zed, he may as well be driving a lotus seven for all the kit his car no longer has, dudes wheels are empty! but at the end of the day it is for the commitee to decide on these things and as members we kinda have to abide, i would like to ask the commitee to re asses these groups before we start to race. i have every faith in you to decide on what to do. this is after all the ZCLUB, we ARE a great and friendly group, every meet is a joy to attend and this is a friendly competition, my opinion is that as soon as you put a prize at the end of it tempers will be raised, especially when its cash! once again this is a suggestion but i'm not sure thats the best reward for winning, how about just a free years membership or something because i get the feeling that everyone would scrutanise the other cars in their class!

lets stay friends about this hey?

 

[Mr.F]

The Z Club has operated a Drag Challenge of one form or another since the '80s. Then we only had to worry about 240s, 260s and 280s - maybe the rare arrival of a Z31. We could distinguish between stock and mod, put caps on how modded and allowed 2+2 porkers their own classes. As variations grew, we ended up with more and more classes - stock and mod for every combination, plus super-mod to accomodate V8 transplants and the like. In more recent years, the attendance had become a bit thin and the numbers of cars competing in any one class became minimal (verging on the invisible in some cases).
For the 2006 season a group of regulars sat down and thrashed out the current points scoring system which sought to amalgamate classes as much as possible and to award not only performance, but skill plus loyalty to the Club and its events. The current points system is more about your ability to launch your car (reaction times - the great leveller) and your willingness to attend more than once during the course of the year. The actual fastest times are now a tiny part of the process of being an overall class winner or the 2007 Champion. The amalgamated classes are based on years of observation and experience of what Zs actually can and can't do on a drag strip!
Now, if you compete in a class of one, you score one point only. Encourage a few similarly equipped mates to come and play and if you are fourth in a class of six, you score three points! Attendance points double up each time you attend - the more you attend the higher the scores.
The reaction time table replaces the bracket feature we used to run - a good reaction time is available to any car regardless of its state of tune. A stock car can score ten points every time it attends (if the driver is good enough). We ended up splitting cars by hundredths, not tenths on this feature last year.
If we return to a multiple class split as suggested, we will end up with a lot of classes of one attendee for most meetings, so it is intended to stick with the current system for 2007. All cogently argued suggestions will be received and considered as we progress and you might be able to argue a change to the 2008 rules. Meantime, the best way to impress the organisers that a system of more classes is viable is to attend and enjoy during 2007 and show the Z world what your car is capable of. I know it's great to be the fastest every time, but with current numbers we can't please everyone. Fastest times in individual car classes are also recorded in the separate Hall of Fame sub-tables, so you can make your mark there.
So, for success - hone your reaction times, attend every event and compete in a class of more than one!

 

[Mr.F]

For reference, this is the most recent copy of the "rules" with two additions that were made during 2006 season. You will see that no-one gains the benefit of having a Mod or Stock class - mods are up to you as long as they are within the spirit of the regs. NOS and slicks have always been regarded as stepping beyond road-going modifications and have always been moved to Super-Mod. In the bad old days, a 240Z owner with carbs bigger than 45 DCOE would have found themselves in Super-Mod!

1.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The Class structure will be:
Class 1 will be for S30 cars, i.e. all 240Z, 260Z, 260Z 2+2 and any import varieties that are deemed to fit this bracket. No distinction is being made regarding modified or un-modified and anything goes (multiple carbs. of any size, injection, bored and stroked, LSD) as long as the original series engine, normally aspirated, remains the core of the project. No turbo cars – these move into the new Class 3 – see below. No nitrous oxide injection and no slicks, however. Use of either or both of these two items automatically lifts you into the Super-Mod / Hybrid Class.
Class 2 will be for S130 and Z31 normally aspirated models only. Any mods allowed apart from turbos as long as the original engine configuration remains the core concept. No NoS or slicks – see above.
Class 3 will be for forced induction cars from the S30, S130 and Z31 model range – factory turbo, aftermarket turbo or supercharger, this is where you will compete. No NoS or slicks – see above.
Class 4 will be for Z32 NA models. In 2005/6 this generated its own mini-shoot outs, so could be a very competitive class. All mods allowed as long as no forced induction. No NoS or slicks – see above.
Class 5 will be for Z32 Twin Turbos – no holds barred; if you have 600bhp you race with the 350bhp guys! As above, however, no NoS and no slicks – let traction be the equaliser!
Class 6 will be for the Z33, modified or forced induction. No NoS, no slicks as above.
Class 7 is now for Super Modified cars - essentially it is a combination of Hybrid cars and extreme modded versions running the original engine (engine swaps, enough horsepower to need slicks, NoS if you like). Previous competitors with triple 48s etc. will be pleased to know they no longer have to race here as long as their engine configuration is as the manufacturer intended.
NEW "Cars competing in classes 1 to 6 are expected to conform to all legal requirements of a road-going, MOT'd and taxed vehicle and to have been driven to and from the track, i.e. a typical Clubman's car. Cars brought on trailers / transporters, cars in regular competition use and cars stripped or lightened excessively may be subject to additional scrutiny before being allocated to a class. The decision of the official on the day will be final."
NEW With the introduction of various treaded slick tyres designed specifically for drag racing, it is felt that the additional clause must be added for Classes 1 – 6: “Tyres must be fully street legal, capable of passing an MOT and the car must be capable of driving to the strip on those tyres. DOT marked but non- street legal tyres will be deemed to raise the competitor to Class 7 status.” Check references to Santa Pod’s own Street Eliminator rulings.

2. Points will be accumulated in three ways:
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Points will be awarded in class for the fastest cars on the day in each round of the competition. However, the points awarded will reflect the number of competitors in class. For example, ten competitors will receive 10 points for fastest down to 1 point for slowest; six competitors will receive 6 points for fastest down to 1 point for slowest; three competitors will receive 3 points for fastest, 2 points for second and 1 point for third. A single competitor in class will receive only 1 point when they complete at least one run on the day. Classes in excess of ten competitors will only be awarded points from 10 for first down to 1 for tenth. Subsequent places will score no points.
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]As reaction times are an integral skill in drag racing, we will award points for the best reaction times of the day. 10 points for the best of the day. 9 points for second and so on down the top ten competitors overall at each round.
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Points will additionally be awarded for your attendance. If you come to watch without a Z you will be awarded a flat 2 points per meeting attended. However, if you attend with your Z (whether you run the car or not), you will get 2 points for the first meeting you attend, 4 points for the second meeting you attend, 6 points for the third, 8 points for the fourth, 10 points for the fifth and a massive 12 points for the sixth. In other words, the more support you give your Club, the more points you score!
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]So, assuming a class of six cars, you could score 36 points for being the fastest at each meeting, 60 points for having the best reaction time at each meeting and 42 attendance points for just being there consistently – a massive total award of 138 points across six rounds.
3. The Prizes:
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Trophies will be awarded for highest points gained across six rounds in each of the Classes outlined above. Trophies will be awarded at the last Jap Show meeting of 2006 (usually October).
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]There will be a new Grand Drag Challenge Champion Award for the individual who has amassed the most points across all six rounds. The prize here will be the Grand Champion Trophy, a Grand Champion T-Shirt and a monetary prize of at least £100 value. The money for this prize will come from sponsors of the event and decals for support of the sponsors will be made available at each round. Current sponsors at time of writing are MJP (Eastern Auto), DJ Road and Race, Houghton Insurance, Motormec UK Ltd, Z Centre, and Emerald Cams. The winner will also receive Free Membership to The Z Club for the year following their next renewal date!

 

[Jimijitsu]

"NOS and slicks have always been regarded as stepping beyond road-going modifications" quote Mr f
I agree with you on the slicks part of this statement mike but my nitrous is used on the road it is also recognised by my insurance company and is road legal so in whos opinion is it that this is "stepping beyond road-going"

 

[Jimijitsu]

So JimJitsu, quit winging and start launching

Ill winge all i want thanks skiddell

 

[Jimijitsu]

i dont see nitrous as "cheating" but i do think it's a choice you made,there are plenty other ways to extract power from a 3.0 v6 quad cam???
.

correct there are lots of ways to extract power from this engine this is the way i chose if you check the times from last year on the one good run i was able to do due to all the problems that arise from using nitrous you will find that my time was very similar to petes which shows that if i was in the N/A class i would have been able to have a good compition with him and others. Throwing me in a class which i am unable to compete in makes it a pointless compition for me and anyone else who wants to do this modification because i run against cars which with all the mods under the sun i could never beat and yes again you could argue that it is a points based system and if i turn up more then the other guy i stand a chance of winning my class but what if the other guy turns up as much as me then again i stand no chance what so ever

 

[Jimijitsu]

The point im trying to make is my zed is a Z32 N/A its not ultra modified or super modified its just a Z32 N/A with a bit of gas on it thats it.
it is road legal everything i have on it i use on the road legally im not stepping beyond road going i am road going and the nitrous that i use only makes me as fast as a Z32 N/A slicktop which pete can prove give me a chance to compete in the catagree that i should be in it will only make the compition more fun and more intresting the ultra modified class should be left for those that have done serious mods not someone who just has a bit of gas

 

[Russ]

you will find that my time was very similar to petes which shows that if i was in the N/A class i would have been able to have a good compition with him and others. Throwing me in a class which i am unable to compete in makes it a pointless compition for me and anyone else who wants to do this modification because i run against cars which with all the mods under the sun

Ok, we'll let nitrous into the NA Z32 class, then Pete can install it and he will be another second infront of you again?

 

[Bantambunny]

I'm keeping out of it lol

I wouldn't fit NOS personally. There's plenty of improvements you can make to the car without making it unreliable.

Whether it does or doesn't make any difference is entirely up to your perception of what advantage it gives you.

Yes its a cheap, ON/OFF power system and would push my from 280/300bhp to about 380/400bhp at a guess but i just wouldn't do it down to the worries of it popping/destroying my engine.

I know the NAs are more substantial engines and takes alot to pop them so NOS on an NA makes sense.

I'd say put the NA NOS zeds in with the stock Z32 TTs, it's a reasonable comparison

 

[SKiddell]

so in whos opinion is it that this is "stepping beyond road-going"

A yard stick would be to see if any major car manufacturer makes a car with it fitted as standard or as an option, and as far as I know, no production car has either, hence one reason why NOS and slicks get shunted into the super mod section.
Dont misunderstand me I have nothing against gas but the degree of skill, time and money needed to integrate it with your engine is considerably less compared with real tuning (porting, polishing, gas flowing blah blah blah), the drag challeng is all about rewarding skill, consistancy and ingenuity, not who can bolt the biggest turbo on, run the biggest NOS nozzles or has the biggest wallet thats where the Hall of fame steps in, the HOF is an historical record of the fastest cars of all time firstly by ET (Elasped Time) and then by catagory.
Regarding changing adding groups, Russ made a very valid point and one which the rule makers have thought long and hard about (its been discussed on here) and that is to keep the amount of catagories to a minimum otherwise we will have catagories for everything.....full ashtrays, amount of tread on tyres, type of gearknob.....where would it end

I'd work more on getting it off the line first hehe (just kidding buddy)

Kidding aside you will be surprised how many people fluff the launch without realising it.
launching takes quiet a bit of practice to get right, Pete and I have been doing this for well over 2 years (or is it 3) and we are still learning so seeing as hardly anyone turned up last year I would get practising

On the up side its brilliant that people are discussing it with a view to attending, for those that havent or wont come, you dont know what your missing.....why have a sport car and never explore its capabilities
How many times have you read post like "I whooped a 911 this morning" or "of course I can run 12's" or "I can do 0-60 in xxx" some even have stickers on their car declaring how much horse power they think they have, well come and prove it down at the POD
As has been posted many times before the POD is the cheapest dyno in the land.....and it never lies.

 

[SKiddell]

double post ...weirdness

 

[SKiddell]

I'd say put the NA NOS zeds in with the stock Z32 TTs, it's a reasonable comparison

Not really it isnt
Say I NOS my 240 with a 100 shot, bringing it to over 350HP and therefore capable of running mid to low 12's or so, under your new rule it would get lumped in with the Z32TTs how does that work....most Z32 TTs cant get anywhere near the low 13's let alone the low 12's so they would be at a disadvantage straight away.

 

[Mr.F]

NA NOS zeds in with the stock Z32 TT

1. We don't have a class for stock Z32TT
2. I can only think of one truely stock TT that has ever competed in the Drag Challenge - most have at least exhaust and filter. Stock cars are generally not owned by people who want to go drag racing!
3. You would therefore effectively elevate yourself into a class of one competitor (currently) and minimise your chances of scoring any reasonable points even when you are patently the fastest in that class...

Stay in NA Z32, come second to Pete in a well-attended class and thrash his tired old butt on reaction time at every event - hey presto, you're a champion!

 

[Jimijitsu]

Ok, we'll let nitrous into the NA Z32 class, then Pete can install it and he will be another second infront of you again?

yes by all means please do i I want to make one thing quite clear here I have no problem with pete or a real desire to beat him i like pete all i want is to be in a class where i have a fighting chance of winning chances are I still wont beat him or others

 

[Jimijitsu]

A yard stick would be to see if any major car manufacturer makes a car with it fitted as standard or as an option, and as far as I know, no production car has either.

I belive MG where going to release a car which had nitrous as a option before they went bust