what can i say

SeanDezart said:
For what does that count when one must rebuild the car refuting it finally as being 'original' ?
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Well, yes. Practically, it is not going to be original once the needed rebuild takes place. But the narrative still stands as part of the car's history. And some people pay for that kind of thing.

Personally, I think it's all bollox, as condition and features appropriate to taste trump everything for me. But, again that's IMHO. I think that car went for epically strong money that doesn't compare to the common sense of sourcing and converting a clean Cali car; but maybe this is further evidence of the new reality of buyers with more money (but maybe less knowledge) coming into the market.
 
richiep said:
....condition and features appropriate to taste trump everything for me.......but maybe this is further evidence of the new reality of buyers with more money (but maybe less knowledge) coming into the market.
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Agreed - hopefully (but I have a niggling doubt) good taste will accompany the money.
 
My first 240 I had in the 80's was a rot box and I hated the constant repairs required every year(I couldnt afford a full resto back then). This is not that type of car as its really solid underneath, although badly damaged through jacking on the floorpans. It is infact a great base for a resto but the body rot will cost a lot to do correctly. By the time you replace : both rear quarters, tail gate, slam panel, rear vallance corners, cills, front drivers wing, doglegs, complete front valence, and door skins, your already into a lot of money just on panel, without the fabrication costs of fixing the substructure.

I do hope, for the buyers sake and the car, that he can save some of the rusty areas without replaceing the whole panels. Be interesting to see a build thread.
 
johnymd said:
By the time you replace : both rear quarters, tail gate, slam panel, rear vallance corners, cills, front drivers wing, doglegs, complete front valence, and door skins, your already into a lot of money just on panel, without the fabrication costs of fixing the substructure.

I do hope, for the buyers sake and the car, that he can save some of the rusty areas without replaceing the whole panels. Be interesting to see a build thread.
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Why ?

It's surely quicker, easier and therefore less expensive to replace rather than repair panels and it's clean metal that properly treated will outlast patches.
 
johnymd said:
And what type of car are they after? What questions do they ask?
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Generally they don't want any bodywork. Some will only consider a 'stock' car however as we know that's almost impossible. Some want a modified car for the odd trackday or regularity rally. Nobody wants to pay more than £25k but they are aware of the rising value so in most cases it's cashing-in that appeals. Without exception they want 240Zs so I suppose most of any knowledge they have is from magazine hype re early cars and of course values.

Trackdays - IMO trackdays in a slightly modified Z is not going to be that spectacular especially if on-track with modern cars. Perhaps it's just a 'good thing to say' when explaining why they want a modified car - I do ask.

I also get calls from people who want parts or resto. work and don't know where to go - I had a call last week from a garage mechanic who wanted a bottom ball-joint for a Z31.
 
As an example Sean. Rather than try to source rear quarter panels you may be able to fabricate/replace just wheel arch, dogleg, Section above light, valence lower corner, and the area behind and around rear window. Or if your really lucky, there may be some metal left after you remove the rust in these areas and you just require a small section let in.

Values interest me and I try to analyse what's going on and why. If your buying a zed to use and enjoy then the more you spend the less your going to use and enjoy it, generally. On the other end of the scale, if you spend too little then you will spend too long repairing it and less time enjoying it. If you had a budget of say 10-12k. This would but you a RHD 240z that will need work to either get it on the road or keep it on the road. Spend the same money on a Cali car with no rust and you should get a solid reliable car that you could enjoy every day of the week and do the minimal of maintenance for years to come. You will have to do a fair bit of rust prevention to keep it solid but the car will be a joy to own and not a pain every MOT. You could even pay someone to convert to RHD and still have a better car. I'm not saying you cant get a good RHD car, just that you have to spend a lot of more money to get one and because your spending a lot of money, you may not want to use it as much. This is just my take on the situation.
 
Rob Gaskin said:
Generally they don't want any bodywork. Some will only consider a 'stock' car however as we know that's almost impossible. Some want a modified car for the odd trackday or regularity rally. Nobody wants to pay more than £25k but they are aware of the rising value so in most cases it's cashing-in that appeals. Without exception they want 240Zs so I suppose most of any knowledge they have is from magazine hype re early cars and of course values.

Trackdays - IMO trackdays in a slightly modified Z is not going to be that spectacular especially if on-track with modern cars. Perhaps it's just a 'good thing to say' when explaining why they want a modified car - I do ask.

I also get calls from people who want parts or resto. work and don't know where to go - I had a call last week from a garage mechanic who wanted a bottom ball-joint for a Z31.
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Interesting indeed given I'm currently deciding on direction for the red one

How many enquiries specifically on the white one have you passed on? 3?
 
Just for info, no-one here wants to pay more than €15 - 20.

Always people wanting a structurally sound body but with work needing doing (to justify a low price).....dreamers !
 
I thought there may be a bit of money out there Sean. Looking at your resto's, surely they must be more than 20k?
 
Looks like there's a bit of a gap between what people want and reality - unsurprisingly. And clearly people who need to do more research than just watching Wheeler Dealers or listening to hype from Quentin Wilson, poorly written mag articles etc.

The whole interest in "stock" cars - that has investment cash-in written all over it. Definitely a cultural/demographic shift from the previous generations of Z owner in the UK, where modding (minor or major) has been ingrained since the 70s.

One thing is for sure if this bubble continues to grow - properly restored, standard-ish RHD 240Zs are going to go through the roof value-wise...
 
johnymd said:
I thought there may be a bit of money out there Sean. Looking at your resto's, surely they must be more than 20k?
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:)When did the real cost of a restoration/preparation have any relevance with what people are prepared to pay via an ad for a finished car ?:eek:

They all read/watch (see below) and assume that €15 gets them a nice runner so they may improve it over time and as budget allows......the reality is that €15k over here is between 5 and 10 underestimated and an off the shelf car has more likely a €40k price tag minimum.

richiep said:
Looks like there's a bit of a gap between what people want and reality - unsurprisingly. And clearly people who need to do more research than just watching Wheeler Dealers or listening to hype from Quentin Wilson, poorly written mag articles etc.

One thing is for sure if this bubble continues to grow - properly restored, standard-ish RHD 240Zs are going to go through the roof value-wise...
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Yes and yes....throw in the regular magazine price guides completely out of touch with reality.....
 
richiep said:
One thing is for sure if this bubble continues to grow - properly restored, standard-ish RHD 240Zs are going to go through the roof value-wise...
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Just to throw your petrol on the fire and to re-quote (ish) The Count, when RHD values do go through the roof, the sh*t will hit the fan when original UK V5 documented cars are discovered to be LHD converts more or less well done............
 
SeanDezart said:
Just to throw your petrol on the fire and to re-quote (ish) The Count, when RHD values do go through the roof, the sh*t will hit the fan when original UK V5 documented cars are discovered to be LHD converts more or less well done............
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We know that kind of thing goes on, and within the Z scene, albeit naughty from the DVLA perspective, its understandable, especially if you have no intention of selling, or you communicate the truth to a buyer. The problem will be when people (more likely dealers) sell cars dishonestly (knowingly, or unknowingly through lack of research) or new buyers coming into the scene get caught out or react indignantly to such activities.

The future of Z ownership looks set to be characterized by increased drama I'd say... :unsure:
 
So we'll have

Original RHD cars
Original LHD cars
LHD cars converted to RHD but keeping the original(LHD) id
LHD converted to RHD and with a RHD id(ringers).
 
Rob Gaskin said:
Nobody wants to pay more than £25k but they are aware of the rising value so in most cases it's cashing-in that appeals. Without exception they want 240Zs so I suppose most of any knowledge they have is from magazine hype re early cars and of course values.
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richiep said:
And clearly people who need to do more research than just watching Wheeler Dealers or listening to hype from Quentin Wilson, poorly written mag articles etc.

The whole interest in "stock" cars - that has investment cash-in written all over it. Definitely a cultural/demographic shift from the previous generations of Z owner in the UK
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So we've got :

desire only for RHD 240Zs as an investment by people hyped up by the media and optherwise completly unknowledgeable about Zs looking to buy from whomever (private or pro) clean RHD cars especially those under £25k.....which for economical reasons stated here will have been based upon 'clean' imports.

These investors (after some basic internet research) might be reassured by higher priced cars, deducing them as being original UK cars but that I feel will only compound the future problems as the transaction sums involved become higher and even more sensitive when discovery is made.

OR......we're all flapping our wings over nothing as all the 'new' - money-market wants is a clean, presentable Z intelligently modded (triples, lowered etc) with a V5...:unsure:

If you'd paid £40k for a very nice UK RHD car and discover that it wasn't an original UK imported car by Datsun GB....would you be disappointed, angry, likely to sell it on quick under the premise that your circumstances have changed and it's sold as seen ?:eek:
 
If you'd paid £40k for a very nice UK RHD car and discover that it wasn't an original UK imported car by Datsun GB....would you be disappointed, angry, likely to sell it on quick under the premise that your circumstances have changed and it's sold as seen ?:eek:[/QUOTE]

Didn't realise that there was a 'Datsun (Nissan) GB' prior to 1984? The present market seems awash with imports (mainly LHD). The old Bull Dog mind-set does seem to prevail and although there is nothing wrong with LHD it sits with most brits no easier than croissants at Wimbledon;). I would imagine equally that those in a 'leftie' country will appreciate the opposite. 'Vive la difference' :)
 
Stockdale said:
If you'd paid £40k for a very nice UK RHD car and discover that it wasn't an original UK imported car by Datsun GB....would you be disappointed, angry, likely to sell it on quick under the premise that your circumstances have changed and it's sold as seen ?:eek:
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Didn't realise that there was a 'Datsun (Nissan) GB' prior to 1984? The present market seems awash with imports (mainly LHD). The old Bull Dog mind-set does seem to prevail and although there is nothing wrong with LHD it sits with most brits no easier than croissants at Wimbledon;). I would imagine equally that those in a 'leftie' country will appreciate the opposite. 'Vive la difference' :)[/QUOTE]

I beg your pardons, Datsun UK :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octav_Botnar

You're missing the point quoting LHD cars in the UK market although quite right about rightie cars in leftie markets.....except icon Japanese cars and imported British cars ie Healeys, E-Types and MGBs.
 
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