Values & VIN Swapping | Page 6 | The Z Club of Great Britain

Values & VIN Swapping

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by SeanDezart, Oct 20, 2017.

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  1. richiep

    Z Club Member

    I've been planning to mark up the drilling spots on the wings soon... :devil:

    Sean - thankfully it doesn't matter what you think in legal terms. We should be thankful that they can be done without significant structural interference with the shell. Also bear in mind that suggesting such an ID swap would in practice mean a whole load of RHD converted cars losing their regs, going through BIVA and having their values destroyed with Q plates if they could pass the test. Given the uncertain atmosphere over next year's MOT changes and modifications, casting public doubt on the status of conversions from the safety of France is dangerous territory as the DVLA are hardly known for common sense and reason. You need to let it go and move on - you have your view, and we all disagree with you and that is unlikely to change. :cheers:
  2. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Membership Secretary

    Yes agree, I think the MoT situation will get complex and the DVLA will not be able to sort it out so they may just frown upon all mods. / changes. The general public would be on their side I reckon.

    The next thing will be to stop amateurs modifying or repairing their cars.
  3. Albrecht

    Albrecht Active Forum User

    What number would you put on such a car then? Are you going to create a new chassis number series to cater for it? Who will administrate and curate all this? It sounds like a complete nonsense. "Watch out for chassis number clash..."

    I think you are confusing (legal) identity with configuration.

    The identity of the car is a one-time only deal, created by the manufacturer. The configuration of the car can be changed (LHD to RHD, RHD to LHD, engine swaps, transmission swaps, roof chops, making a convertible/wagon, overfenders etc etc etc) but the identity stays the same.

    What you seem to be forgetting - and it's a big part of what prompted my bringing this up again - is that with an identity swap (unlike a configuration swap) there are at least TWO identities involved. Swapping an identity from a donor to a recipient is not always the end of the story, and it can lead to a domino effect of messy consequences.
  4. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart Official Trader

    Point taken Alan - the difference then is a second identity and presumably what to do with it.
    If there was an offical process by which a car could be reshelled (NOS, heritage or donor), a proper disposal process could be applied guaranteeing against future abuse with a 'lost' ID as per those on ebay etc.

    But no-one's suggestion a new number be allocated....should not the ID of the car reflect it's configuration ? That was after all one of the purposes of it's existence and attachment to a particular car.

    Rich - whether 'you all' disagree with me or not is also irrelvant - what'll count is what the authorties say and by way of your MOTs.

    The safety of France , are you kidding ? Here, cars, particulary imports are tested against the manufacturer's tech-spec sheet. After that, (legally) all cars must adhere to that - change your wheel and tyre size alone and technically, if invloved in an accident and most especially with corporal damage (or worse), one could end up uninsured and paying for handicapped care for the thrid party out of your pocket for the rest of your life !

    You guys have it good - but just don't push the limits or maybe it's too late - conversions, swaps, engine swaps....there's more ado about 'customising' here than classic cars.:eek:

    Alan - so swapping chassis numbers never happens in Japan ?

    I would be fabulous for a mini-publication to tell (in English) the S30 story from the Japanese side leading up until the first reguler exports, say 1964-1971.:cool:
  5. Mr Tenno

    Mr Tenno
    Staff Member

    Let's not do a 4th round on this. We need external evidence to resolve the rebuild / VIN questions and unless anyone has it - I think we've exhausted the discussion.
  6. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart Official Trader

    With respect, that is YOUR personal opinion....the BIG Sam for sale thread brings it all back to life again.

    Apparently, it's not a chassis number swap but 'merely' a chassis swap which is ok and especially because it's an historic car, not DVLA registered or likely to be road-worthy and (wait for it) a LHD chassis to begin with whereas the original BIG Sam chassis was RHD.

    I'm not playing an agent-provocateur as Rich thinks but the Devil's Advocate - one either agress and condones this or not - NO exceptions, no armchair judgements.:cheers:
  7. Albrecht

    Albrecht Active Forum User

    Sean, If I call my car 'Betsy', and I write 'Betsy' off and replace here with another - similar - car, and call that new car 'Betsy', what has happened?

    Clue: It's not a re-shell.
  8. Sam_C

    Z Club Member

    Given the number of Jaguars, Triumphs, MGs etc that have been "re-patriated" from the US over the years and had the steering put back on the correct side, I'd say Sean is on his own with this. A little information on importing an LHD car into New Zealand -

    "Are there restrictions on LHD vehicles?

    Yes. Most left-hand drive vehicles have to be converted to right-hand drive (RHD) before they can be driven on New Zealand roads"

    State-sponsored ringing, Sean?
  9. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart Official Trader

    Yes, but if the second Betsy was a Bill with a skirt (ie LHD and not RHD), than it's no longer Betsy but Bitsa.
  10. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart Official Trader

    Apparently but does open the door for the guys down there to sawp their chassis numbers over - don't you think ?

    And how many of those Jags, Trimuphs, MGs, Porsches etc have become previous DVLA cars ?;)
  11. Mr Tenno

    Mr Tenno
    Staff Member

    It's been laid out in very clear terms:

    Vehicles keeping their 'name' but changing shell: Legal provided it is done correctly.
    Vehicles keeping their VIN but changing LHD/RHD: Legal provided it is done correctly.
    Vehicles intended for the track and never returning to the road changing shell: Legal however you want to do it.
    Vehicles changing shell and switching to the VIN of the replacement shell: Legal provided it is done correctly.
    Vehicles changing shell and retaining the VIN from their old shell: Not legal
    Vehicles changing LHD / RHD changing to the VIN from any donated parts: Not legal
    Vehicles using a 2nd hand shell or mixing 2 shells: Legal provided the DVLA assesses the car and will probably get a New VIN and Q Plate .

    Obviously historically or in shady places this may not have been done 'correctly' but there is little we can do to change this except advocate for all current changes to be done correctly.

    Unless you can PROVE that any of this is incorrect, with evidence we don't need a Devil's advocate here.
  12. Sam_C

    Z Club Member

    And I doubt anyone would disagree with you that represents "identity theft". I'm thinking more about your "keeping the VIN with the shell but changing the steering side is ringing" stance. NZ Government don't agree with you, nor the Jag etc owners who have done just that. If your argument is that you are changing the identity because the plate says LHD, then surely by the same logic swapping your blown engine for one from a scrapper is identity change too, as the engine number / type is also held on the plate?
  13. Mr Tenno

    Mr Tenno
    Staff Member

    Locking the thread due to repetition.
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