Values & VIN Swapping

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SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
The subject has evloved through input from others.

Two questions :

Which is 'worth' more on the open(UK) market - a RHD VIN-ed Z or a RHD lhdVIN-ed Z or an original UK market RHD VIN-ed Z ?:unsure:

Or do buyers judge each car simply upon condition and specification ?

It was Alan that drove this off-topic asking whether I thought that 'it' was legal and I had to request that he answer my questions first.

It still beats discussing Samuris twice a week dunnit ?:D
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
The circle has indeed been completed, no need for a second lap on the VIN number argument.

However, just to keep the argument going as I am that way out and values are within my area of interest ( plus it will interest or wind up Richie P :D ), I don't think any JDM car is worth more than a UK or ROW rhd spec. car

I would rather have a nice UK/ROW rhd car (yes there may be minor spec. differences between them but nothing of any consequence) than a JDM base model Fairlady Z

150bhp / 2.4 litre engine / 5 speed box UK/ROW car
v
130bhp / 2 litre / 4 speed box JDM car

No contest - even if they were the same price, let alone having to pay more for the inferior spec. car.

When did you last see a JDM S30 of any variant for sale in the UK anyway ?
 
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Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
...I don't think any JDM car is worth more than a UK or ROW rhd spec. car

150bhp, 2.4 litre engine, 5 speed box UK/ROW car v 130bhp, 2 litre, 4 speed box JDM car

Er, you must be trolling, right...?

Is there any reason why you didn't include the superior spec. Japanese market cars that were contemporary with your 150bhp, 2.4 litre engined, 5-speed boxed UK/ROW spec. example?

How about a 150bhp, 2.4 litre engined, 5-speed boxed Japanese market car, let alone a 160ps, 2-litre 24-valve twin-cam, electronic ignitioned, 5-speed boxed, LSD-equipped, magnesium-wheeled, sports suspensioned example? How about all that with a super lightweight body, 100 litre tank, sports seats, 4-point belts and a host of weight-saving deletes?

'Not Sold Here' so 'Does Not Compute'...?
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
Ha ha, light blue touch paper and retire, not even mischief night yet.
Trolling, mais non - but got you out of the traps at record speed and barking up the wrong tree :rofl:

I am using the example of the inferior spec. Fairlady because was in not the case that Franky (re-stated by Sean) in a previous post said any JDM Fairlady was worth more than a UK/ROW spec car. Just been summoned for my evening sushi so no time to go back and quote, however

I am merely pointing out that in my opinion the lesser spec. S30 JDM cars would not be more valuable.............
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
With the '69 through '73 S30 Fairlady Z-L and S30-S Fairlady Z models, you have to take into account where 99% of them are located, and where 99% of them change hands. That's Japan.

And 99% of them change hands for more than a like-for-like (condition, year) UK market car. Fact.
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Trolling, mais non - but got you out of the traps at record speed and barking up the wrong tree :rofl:

I am merely pointing out that in my opinion the lesser spec. S30 JDM cars would not be more valuable.............

I think it's you that's barking up the wrong tree here. 'Worth' is subjective (and subjectivity is subjective...) but the market for them (that's Japan...) shows that they are - all things being equal - more valuable. '69 and '70 production year examples particularly so.

If you spot any cheapo cheapo, unloved "inferior spec." Japanese market '69 through '73 S30-series Zs up for grabs here in the UK, please tip me the wink. I know where to sell them.
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
I was just using the lowest spec. JDM S30 model to make a point.

I cannot believe you really thought I was unaware of the higher spec. JDM models ? God damn we have to look enviously at your immaculately tasteful engine bay in the on trend colour of the moment often enough on another thread without you using this as an excuse to post it again :smash:

I believe we are discussing prices in the UK though, not Japan or worldwide. As I mentioned you rarely/never see a JDM car for sale here anyway so academic and thinking some more about it, there would probably be the snob/rarity value that would bring it up value to at least the same level as the superior ;) UK spec. car. Same happens in the States where the snob value/rarity/exclusivity of driving a RHD JDM car pushes price levels higher than home market cars.

Value or worth, subjective or not is hard to evaluate between continents with price levels affected by exchange rate movements so since the beginning of 2016 to date there has been a huge depreciation of the £ against the Yen. A 6 million JPY S30 that was £ 31.5k in Jan 2016 is now £ 40k and was possibly as much as £ 48k just a few months ago.

Turning it around I wonder if the rarity/exclusivity of a UK/ROW spec. car in Japan may be as highly valued as JDM cars are generally elsewhere in the world ( lower spec. excepted in my case of course ;) ) Are there many/any UK/ROW cars in Japan or have they never felt the need to import to supplement the indigenous cars ?
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
Aha OK, re-reading my earlier post I see where the confusion arises, penny just dropped.
It's how you read the word ' any ' it does look ambiguous but I did not mean any as in 'all'.
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
Yep, sports 'suspensioned' in his 5.59pm post looks a bit dodgy :D

Mind you he did fire that off in record response time to be fair and had to check his BP monitor shortly afterwards.

I bet he got an 'A' in his English 'O' level either way.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
How about a 150bhp, 2.4 litre engined, 5-speed boxed Japanese market car, let alone a 160ps, 2-litre 24-valve twin-cam, electronic ignitioned,

Electronic ignition ?:eek: I didn't know that !

But we ARE talking UK values - it IS a UK club and I wouldn't bore you with values here.

More interestingly, how are imports back into Japan doing from RHD market countries if prices in the JDM are so high ?
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Yep, sports 'suspensioned' in his 5.59pm post looks a bit dodgy :D

Mind you he did fire that off in record response time to be fair and had to check his BP monitor shortly afterwards.

I bet he got an 'A' in his English 'O' level either way.

Noted that Mr Tenno doesn't seem to have taken any exception to the "personal" nature of posts like this.

TAFL.
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
Surely just a back-handed compliment with humour ( or an attempt at.....no comment please ! ) That's how I viewed it anyway :thumbs:
 

Mr Tenno

Digital Officer
Staff member
Site Administrator
I can't moderate round the clock unfortunately! It did seem in good humor to me at least.

As for the car values, would be interested to know how values stack up in the UK for similar specification JDM cars vs. UK originals. Personally, I'd rather have the UK version since I'm not a fan of the JDM wing mirrors!
 

richiep

Club Member
Difficult because there are so very few JDM cars here, and those that are are of varying specs, and that's without considering mods (e.g. my car with L28 etc.). The reality though is that, due to the market there and exchange rates, JDM cars are the most expensive to source. Rarity in the U.K. Will count for something, but a UK-centric audience may still place more value on a U.K. car. JDM enthusiasm may have a niche audience (Alan, me, and a smattering of others) - although the look has had a wider impact (all those ZG flares these days...). Personally, I'd always go JDM over anything else all things considered, but that's driven by personal interest in the models and the options exclusive to Japan. And I love the fender mirrors! Hence why my CA project will eventually reemerge as a FairladyZ clone (cheaper starting point).
 

chrisvega

Well-Known Forum User
And I love the fender mirrors! Hence why my CA project will eventually reemerge as a FairladyZ clone (cheaper starting point)

Nooooo !
May I protest on Dixie's behalf :lol:
Think I will have to change the locks on the barn;)
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
Rarity in the U.K. Will count for something, but a UK-centric audience may still place more value on a U.K. car.

Generally speaking, we tend to covet things that we can actually see. UK-based enthusiasts - again, generally speaking - have not had many of the various Japanese market variants put in front of them, and know little about them. Many people tell me their only encounters with them have been in video games.

My experience in the UK 'scene' is that there's no real depth of knowledge, and Japanese market cars were usually dismissed as being "inferior" (cf posts from late yesterday). There's still a belief that the Japanese market cars were - and I quote - "all two litre", despite the fact that Japan got more L24-engined S30-series Zs than the UK, Australia and NZ combined.
 

SeanDezart

Well-Known Forum User
The whole point about the LHD car converted to RHD, and keeping the original LHD chassis number/identity scenario is that there is NO CHANGE OF IDENTITY. It's still the same car, the same body unit with its factory-applied identity present and intact. There's no need to touch the firewall-engraved chassis number in a non full-bulkhead swap LHD to RHD conversion, and it can stay untouched in the same position.

I still maintain that there IS a change of identity when a LHD VINumbered car becomes RHD.
That even if there is no 'need' to effect a full-bulkhead swap, these full swaps are smiled upon and more encouraged as being better finished that the cut and patch jobs seen in the past.

Scenario (hypothetical - honest) : a bloke has a sex-change, dresses up and behaves like a woman now, even alters his name.Do you treat him as a bloke (as was from birth) or a woman ?

LHD Z now dressed as RHD - is that not an identity change ? Should not the ID of the car reflect it's new status ?
After all, what was the point of Nissan designating different chassis codes for sided-driving if it's generally accepted to mix and match ?

Alan, this has surely happened in Japan whereby buyers and owners are tempted to reshell with clean donors from the US !

Generally speaking, we tend to covet things that we can actually see.
My experience in the UK 'scene' is that there's no real depth of knowledge........There's still a belief that the Japanese market cars were - and I quote - "all two litre".......

Agreed on the coveting and internet has certainly opned up peoples tastebuds - I'm so saturated by seeing wide-added arches on cars with typically deep front spoilers....!

As for the UK scene (read European), this is merely because there has never been any definitive literature published on the JDM cars - just snippets gleaned here and there from one or two books and even they've got 'it' wrong and maybe a couple of reasonably written mag articles.

Don't say we should get out there and discover - you've been in a very privileged position and have since made many good friends and contacts based upon mutual respect. The rest of us mortals make do in a kind of fuzzy ignorance grasping for the whole facts.

I had no idea (stated earlier) that the Z432 had electronic ignition although fully aware of the prolification of L20A and L24s in the JDM, courtesy of yourself.:cheers:

Another gem your showed me - the auto box was a dealer option in Europe whereas I thought it only a USA option. That only came to light for me courtesy of a Dutch market auto 240Z.

It would be fabulous for a mini-publication to tell (in English) the S30 story from the Japanese side leading up until the first reguler exports, say 1964-1971.:cool:
 
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