Toyoya GT86 and the 260Z

I don't think Nissan have the foggiest what they want to do or be tbh. The 370Z has not worked for them (even in the US sales are a fraction of what they were for the 350Z), the 86 is occupying the "true Z" spot, they've dropped the IDx concept despite strong positive reaction (because they don't want to engineer a new platform from scratch). Looks like they'll just have the GT-R and Juke-on-steroids.

240Z not a pure sports car?... dear me.
 
Start where Mr K began......dear me !

Nissan want to extend the 'NISMO' range throughout - the Juke is the tip of the iceberg to test the market and will never be a big seller - it's too small a niche market.

240Z not a pure sports car.......written again by someone who's never driven one. I wonder what they DO class as a 'pure' sportscar ?
 
It would be interesting to know why the 370Z hasn't sold well.

I've had a 350Z and currently a 370Z and I have an opinion of both. I also have two 240Zs which is a car people (including me) rave about but they wouldn't sell well today either. What does sell well is a Ford Fiesta.

Yes the Toyota sells ok and I'm sure it is a great drivers car (helped by narrow wheels/tyres ;) ). It will be cheaper to run than a 370Z and is about £10k cheaper to buy I think, so there's some of the explanation.
 
I think Nissan has forgotten that less is more. Even though safety standards add a lot of weight to cars these days it's not impossible to build a lightweight sports car, Toyota and Mazda seem to be doing it just fine but Nissan are caught up in the numbers game, with the Clarkson mentality of must have MOAR POWAAH!

It's like they've given up on the sports car market entirely. Sure, it will take a bit of investment to come up with a new chassis but surely it's worth doing considering the crazy success of the GT86 and MX5?

They need to go back to basics; lightweight chassis, smaller less powerful engine, affordable.

Honda also need to sort themselves out. So many great designs in the past to draw on but all they have coming up is a ridiculous FWD Type-R Civic with crazy power that will probably weigh 2 tonnes and handle like cr*p, and an NSX successor that only the rich can afford.
 
Rob Gaskin said:
On the road at the end of 2014:

370Z 1.8k
GT86 4k

MX5 98k :thumbs:
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Then again, how many years has the MX5 been on the road compared to the others? 25?

The key stats would be the year on year sales since the introduction of the GT86, the most recent car.

The year-on-year sales in the U.S. for the 370Z were an eye opener when I was reviewing (before my previous post in this thread). The drop off compared to the 350Z was striking. I think it's a car out of step with what works in the present market, even in its general class. And even in the U.S.
 
Do you think 370Zs are just too much of a sports car for most people who think they want a sports car. My point is they don't need the performance and want something a bit 'softer' to drive.

I know it looks like I'm defending the 370Z as if it's got no weaknesses but it sure is a 'good' car. Also it's so well built and reliable. If it sounded more like a sports car and had better visibility that would help a great deal.

The visibility thing is quite significant when manoeuvring and the high waistline prevents you from seeing kerbs in carparks.
 
Too technical (and I include all the in-cockpit gadgets in there too like computer screen, GPS etc), too comfortable (ie heated, electric seats), too heavy and too much power (needed to move all that mass) meaning (over here at least) a lot in insurance and (maybe over there) a lot in road tax.

IMHO, it isn't a sportscar anymore, it's a GT which makes it compete with 'greater' cars....and most £££ people steer towards the known makes of sportcars.

Nissan need to wake up and make sportscars - driving machines - the Opel Speedster is a good example of a mass-producer making something efficient.
 
I agree with all the above; my perceived view of the 370 is that it's too much car, which puts it up in GT territory.

A sports car doesn't need to be fast ('quick' is enough), or have all the creature comforts, it needs simply to look good, handle well and be fun to drive.

Adding in a load of features and options not only makes the car heavier but more expensive too, making it handle worse than it should and unobtainable for many of the people who would be looking to buy a sports car.

The 240z was pretty much everything the 370 isn't, which I think suggests why one was a best seller and the other was, commercially speaking, a failure. Will Nissan take note of any of that? Doubt it somehow, which is unfortunate.
 
morbias said:
A sports car doesn't need to be fast ('quick' is enough), or have all the creature comforts, it needs simply to look good, handle well and be fun to drive.
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...and as a (normally) superflous car and therefore already a 'luxury', agree that it should be (relatively) inexpensive.

Nissan - look around for a good chassis in your backyard (Laguna coupé ? / Megan RS :devil: ?) and design something beautiful.
 
SeanDezart said:
Too technical (and I include all the in-cockpit gadgets in there too like computer screen, GPS etc), too comfortable (ie heated, electric seats), too heavy and too much power (needed to move all that mass) meaning (over here at least) a lot in insurance and (maybe over there) a lot in road tax.

IMHO, it isn't a sportscar anymore, it's a GT which makes it compete with 'greater' cars....and most £££ people steer towards the known makes of sportcars.

Nissan need to wake up and make sportscars - driving machines - the Opel Speedster is a good example of a mass-producer making something efficient.
Click to expand...

morbias said:
I agree with all the above; my perceived view of the 370 is that it's too much car, which puts it up in GT territory.

A sports car doesn't need to be fast ('quick' is enough), or have all the creature comforts, it needs simply to look good, handle well and be fun to drive.

Adding in a load of features and options not only makes the car heavier but more expensive too, making it handle worse than it should and unobtainable for many of the people who would be looking to buy a sports car.

The 240z was pretty much everything the 370 isn't, which I think suggests why one was a best seller and the other was, commercially speaking, a failure. Will Nissan take note of any of that? Doubt it somehow, which is unfortunate.
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Guys I agree with a lot of what you have said but it is a great car. It looks amazing, it goes like stink, it is 100% yes 100% reliable, it does 28.5 mpg all the time, insurance for me is ok, road tax is not.

The Toyota is a different car and I suppose that's what we are talking about here - for me at 63 the 370Z is my choice.

I just want to remind you (because I'm old enough to remember the 240Z when it was new - I was 17) it was considered big and heavy and in the rally world it was the 'big Datsun' ! Even back then it was perhaps a GT rather than a sports car (MGs, Prorsche, TRs, etc). Today in historic rallying the Datsun is too heavy at the front to be a great rally car like the Escort or Porsche.

Weight - it's a lot lighter than many supercars or GT cars but they are accepted without question as awesome e.g. 370Z 1466 kg - Lambo Ventador 1575 kg.

I admire Nissan for building the 370Z :bow: I also admire Toyota for re-badging a Subaru;)
 
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Rob Gaskin said:
The Toyota is a different car and I suppose that's what we are talking about here - for me at 63 the 370Z is my choice.
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No offence but that says it all :

60 somethings don't search the same sensations as 30 somethings and young people design*, build and buy sportscars.

The market results speak for themselves - Nissan needs a lighter, fun car - 50+ something buying Porsches aren't doing so because they're more fun but because they've aspired to one all their lives - people simply don't aspire to a 370Z.......**

*Average age of those responsable for the Miura ?

**they do for 240Zs - look at the youth buying them on the net !:cool:
 
morbias said:
A sports car doesn't need to be fast ('quick' is enough), or have all the creature comforts, it needs simply to look good, handle well and be fun to drive.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. The 240z/260z, like the E-Type Jag, was a real head-turner - and still is! A lot of the modern-day muscle cars just get lost in the crowd.
Was filling up the 260 with petrol yesterday, and some young girl called out "Love the motor - looks like a James Bond car." She had no idea what it was, but she was wowed by it.
And that just about sums it up - it has style and glamour without being a big ugly bruiser. Nissan need to get back to their roots - they have got the GTR which blasts just about everything else off the road, now they need to compete with the likes of the Toyota with their next Z. Something with drop-dead gorgeous lines that's fun to drive and affordable.
 
RIDDLER said:
Totally agree. The 240z/260z......was a real head-turner - and still is! A lot of the modern-day muscle cars just get lost in the crowd........She had no idea what it was, but she was wowed by it.......And that just about sums it up - it has style and glamour without being a big ugly bruiser.
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Totally agree.
 
Okay guys, I can see I'm in a minority here so will shut up soon. :eek:

However to try and understand the market (and your thinking):

Why haven't you bought a GT86?

Why haven't you bought a 350/370Z?

Have you driven any of the above?

If Nissan brought out a GT86 type car would you buy it?

Rob (RIDDLER) I too get a lot of admirers for the 370Z honest! Recently my wife and I were stationary at traffic lights and a guy knocked on the passenger window and said 'what a lovely car'.
 
Rob, let me throw my hat in the ring of being unpopular.

I really don't like the 350's design, to me it's too fussy and disjointed - though I love the engine note; baby Ferrari. :D

The 370 is a great improvement but it's bottom ain't gonna put Kylie's to shame any day soon. Though the convertible is quite nice with the roof off.

The GT86 reminds me of a baby LFA in looks. Really love looking at it from every angle. The interior is sadly a little too fussy but you can't have it all.

I would buy a GT86 or even another (s2000) tomorrow if I had the garage space. But somehow neither the 350 or 370 appeal to me emotionally in the same way. It's like the woman who ticks all the boxes but just doesn't stoke your heart on a first date.

The long nose, snake head and eyes, the chuckability, the neat rear, the gear change and revvy engine you have to work to progress at pace just grabbed me from the first 1/4 mile on the S2K test drive. I went out and bought one the next day. The night I brought her home, I had to have a last look before going to bed. I ended up grabbing the keys and driving for two hours then standing back and admiring the clean lines while the hot exhaust ticked and crackled itself cool. The same engagement is true of the achingly beautiful RX7 and the GT86 test drives I had.

Somehow the 350 / 370 just don't do the same to me. Perfect in their own right but don't make me want throw caution to the wind!
 
Rob Gaskin said:
However to try and understand the market (and your thinking):

Why haven't you bought a GT86?

Why haven't you bought a 350/370Z?

Have you driven any of the above?

If Nissan brought out a GT86 type car would you buy it?
Click to expand...

Not sure if my answers help as I'll never buy a new car even if I had the spare money.

A) I don't like 4 cylinder noises - I've driven an S2000 like I stole it - it was fun but just for a one-night stand (since we're comparing to women....)

B) Too expensive new and with my L31 EFi 240Z with PAS, I'll have all the confort, economy and power I need in a road-going S30 GT. I'd consider a 350Z later but only if I had a dedicated track-going S30. I wouldn't track the 350Z for the same reasons for not doing the same in a Z32 - not it's natural domain and to make it so would take the car too far away from the road pleasure for which it's designed (all IMHO of course).

C) 350Z yes and bounced it off the ESP lights as well as sedately - lovely car but see above.

D) No (budget again) but please make something similar (coupé only) AND (albeit VERY belatedly) make something to compete against the style of the first series MX-5s ie :

a Z coupé and a Fairlady Roadster made and sold in parallel.....the Micra convertible just doesn't do it ! :D
 
Rob Gaskin;229031My wife and I were stationary at traffic lights and a guy knocked on the passenger window and said 'what a lovely car'.[/QUOTE said:
What was his next line? "Can I wash your windscreen?". (Apologies Rob - couldn't resist that!).
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