Somebody recognize this, back into history

[Legendary5]

Isn't that from '74? No.14 was Kallstrom's car ( 6468 ) and no.35 was Remtulla ( 6469 ). I thought no.15 was a service / tender car left over in Kenya from the previous year, locally registered ( just like one of Mehta's cars that he later brought to the UK was ) and 'local' ( Zambian? ) drivers. What about Skowronnek and Woodlands?

There were ex-works cars - with local entries - running in the EA Safari as late as 1977........ .

I believe it is the '72 entrant Alan Daun (according the books ofcourse)

4541 was one of that big batch ( eight Works cars ) sent out to Kenya for the '72 Safari. Later in the year Shekhar Mehta used it for the RAC Rally.........

With in the mean time the Acropolis Rally.

 

[Legendary5]

1970 EAS rally The ultimate list

How many Datsun’s, do you think took part in the 1970 EAS Rally?
5 ..... 10 ..... 15 ..... 20 :lol:
Don't fool me look for your self

a complete production line

 

[Albrecht]

How many Datsun’s, do you think took part in the 1970 EAS Rally?

Thing is, I personally feel the need to separate the proper Works-built cars from the privateer-built cars - as they are quite clearly different, both in build detail ( difficult to overstate this point ) and entry circumstances.

This can become complicated when Works-built cars passed into privateers hands, or even what we might call "semi-Works" ownership ( or simply when its carnet ran out ), but it could be argued that this just makes the hunt more interesting.......

For example, I'd be more interested in that Alan Daun car from the '72 EA Safari if it was in fact an ex-Works car that had passed into local hands and ended up on an African license plate than if it was a locally-built car.

Guus, your site does not really differentiate between Works-built and non Works-built cars ( except where the temporary-Export 'translated' Japanese number plate is quoted ) and therefore it looks quite complicated to my eyes. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation. Personally speaking, I find it hard enough to concentrate on the Works-built cars without bringing privateer-builds into the equation. And if you were to bring Japanese circuit racing cars into the equation it would become an almost impossible task.............

 

[Legendary5]

At first, my site is meant to be recon as a Works Z car site and I agree with you there’s no more fun as finding the routes of an old car.
However, that is a pretty hard job.

On the other hand, there is no other site that reveals the Datsun rally world as I do. Z’s are my focus, they will be, therefore they are bold written.

I had my doubts in updating the list but couldn’t resist the info. Could add the entrant’s as well, to make all clear.
I also love to let the world see what Datsun accomplish in rallying..
It is a bit of marketing too. If I can fill the 80’s and 90’s as well the site gets more hits/attraction and so the Z’s!

I personally think that Alan Daun had an ex-works car. How many Z’s where imported as private car in Kenya or Zambian? It’s not a car you desperate need over there, yeah you‘ll be quick at the other side of the country as they showed in ’71 .

Saying this; if you observe the photo, you can see the hatch is from a ’72 type (without the airsleeves). Don’t think they were showing of, driving a ’71 car with a ’72 hatch…..

 

[SeanDezart]

Guus, your site does not really differentiate between Works-built and non Works-built cars ( except where the temporary-Export 'translated' Japanese number plate is quoted ) and therefore it looks quite complicated to my eyes. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation. Personally speaking, I find it hard enough to concentrate on the Works-built cars without bringing privateer-builds into the equation. And if you were to bring Japanese circuit racing cars into the equation it would become an almost impossible task.............

Talking of which - is there a site concentrating soley on circuit S30s ?

Guus - your screen awaits. I love your site even though as soon as anyone starts listing info, one is aware of the gaps but I concentrat on what is there rather than what might be missing (as if I knew....) ! If you want to know more about euro rallying and especially the later cars then you need to visit here :

TEAM GO ON 4WD & VHC - Portail

Vincent Morin in Marseille (son of one of Datsuns' first dealers in France) and owner of several Datsuns including a 240Z is VERY passionate about Datsuns, especially the competition saloons. He has a wealth of archives, photos etc.

 

[Legendary5]

Entrants. Made an example with the 60ies of what it could look like.

 

[Legendary5]

Mintex Rally

Just got info about the Mintex Rally in ’72 and ’73.
At least one (4151) took part in the ’72 edition and was written of by T. Fall.
At least two Z’s took part in ’73, one 'works' (Withers of Winsford) and one private.

Any comment to this?

 

[Albrecht]

Just got info about the Mintex Rally in ’72 and ’73.
At least one (4151) took part in the ’72 edition and was written of by T. Fall.
At least two Z’s took part in ’73, one 'works' (Withers of Winsford) and one private.

Any comment to this?

Guus,
I see you have joined the AtlasF1 TNF forum.........

'73 Mintex Seven Dales entry by Withers of Winsford was an ex-Works car ( running Cal Withers' personal number plate 'CAL 1' ) as you know. The David Franks / Ken Milner 240Z entry 'KYT 991K' was a purely privateer UK-built car. You can see it pictured on the cover of the 'Tuning Datsuns' book by Paul Davies.

Tony Fall's crash in '4151 on the '72' Mintex Seven Dales was indeed truly monumental, and the car was totally destroyed. This just a few weeks after it had been his mount on the '72 Monte, and had afterwards been 'borrowed' by Gerard Larrousse to use in the ice races at Chamonix.

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, they say. '4151' had a short life, and became an organ donor after being dragged back down to OWSS on the meat wagon.........

 

[Legendary5]

Thanks Alan. Seen the photo before, one mess of car………. Although the Z didn’t had a roll cage it is still pretty in shape. Could have been worse.

I assume Richard Jackson (third car Mintex) was a privateer as well……….

 

[Legendary5]

It’s known Nissan took only part in the European rally programme and British internationals.

Which UK rallies where internationals and which not?
How about the Castrol rally cross and the Torbay rally.
Due to the international status of the ’71 Welsh rally, I presume the entrant of Tony Fall’s car was Nissan Motors?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Guus, I'm sure the Torbay Rally was not an International, in fact it was a road rally held on roads open to the public. It was part of the fantastic Motoring News Road Rally Championship, a series I competed in, in the early '70s.

The car you picture at the start of the Welsh International is the very successful Mini Clubman of Will Sparrow and Nigel Raeburn. He was a regular winner of Motoring News Road Rallies.

 

[Albrecht]

I assume Richard Jackson (third car Mintex) was a privateer as well……….

Yes, another privateer car built up from a standard UK market RHD example. He ran it with his personal registration number 'SPY 44', and you can see it - like 'KYT 991K' - in the Paul Davies 'Tuning Datsuns' book.

It’s known Nissan took only part in the European rally programme and British internationals.

Which UK rallies where internationals and which not?
How about the Castrol rally cross and the Torbay rally.
Due to the international status of the ’71 Welsh rally, I presume the entrant of Tony Fall’s car was Nissan Motors?

The situation wasn't as simple as 'this-or-that'. You'd be well advised to look at each event, and indeed each individual car and crew on a case-by-case basis. There were cases where cars were 'works' entries in all but name ( because who was actually listed as the 'entrant' had other ramifications ) and cases where cars were purely privateer entries but were entered by works or works-affiliated bodies.

Some of the 'regular' drivers of the works cars were lobbying Nissan's staff in the field to allow them to use works cars on smaller events in order to get more seat time in the cars, and to help them 'develop' the equipment. However, cars - and indeed spares - were always reported to be in relatively short supply, and with Japan being so far logistically from mainland Europe at that time, and communication being such a convoluted process, this was apparently somewhat discouraged by the powers-that-be in Japan. But 'Waka' used his own discretion ( knowing that more seat time - and more stage time - was useful ) and allowed works cars to be used for events that were between the major planned events, and this is why we sometimes see that works cars took part in events such as that Torbay Rally in 1970. In such cases, the true 'entrant' might not necessarily be the name that was put on the entry form, and drivers occasionally used their own money - or their sponsor's money - to pay for the entry.

Of course, allowing some of these little excursions had it's risks and more works cars were crashed and destroyed in these "minor" events than in the "major" events that they were originally built for. A fact which reportedly turned the telex lines between the UK and Japan blue...........

So, in summary, it was a very complex, convoluted and political subject that is best understood by the people concerned, and much misunderstood by observers like us - looking in from the outside.

 

[michael1703]

the pictures are of two different cadwell races, one shows the woodlands circuit and the other shows the club circuit as they turn around at different points

 

[Albrecht]

the pictures are of two different cadwell races, one shows the woodlands circuit and the other shows the club circuit as they turn around at different points

Which pictures?

If you mean the pictures from the issue of Cars And Car Conversions magazine, the article itself makes it clear that the pics are from several different meetings ( it is a round-up of previous meetings ).

If you mean the pictures of the Works 240Z rally car wearing race number '55' on its doors, the pictures are from the same Cadwell event, and on the same day.

 

[SeanDezart]

What about this one ?

 

[Legendary5]

17th Tour de Corse Dec 1-2
Y. Nishimura / A. Tanaka (J/J)

You could have found this information on www.Z-point.nl

 

[SeanDezart]

Yes (but if I did, how many others here would have seen the photo ?) and you're not telling me anything more than I already know.....

looks like the first photo was taken after the first (signs of rushed repairs at the front)

appears to have a works cage

has a silver bonnet with white 'ZG' arches

has the plaque no. KT 33 SA 23-29

Was it a left over car from the Monte Carlo Rallye or a private entrant (or both) ?

You list it as a works entry but don't record it's end result. Brian Long simply doesn't list it.

In short :

"What about this one ?"

 

[Legendary5]

You list it as a works entry but don't record it's end result. Brian Long simply doesn't list it.

In short :

"What about this one ?"

This answer of you indicates you've never been to my page (or you don’t read) otherwise you should have known the result too.
It’s a private entrée. I have also another photo of them.

 

[SeanDezart]

Oh don't start - I couldn't access THE page this morning - apologies !

18th overall.....and then what ? Where did that car afterwards - what happened to it ?

You list it as TKS 33 SU 23-29 whereas its' plaque states "KT 33 SA 23-29".

Now, was it a works entry or private - you've listed it as a works - does that mean it was a private entry of a works car ?

BTW :

Club Zen de France is now Club Datsun-France (Datsun-France.com) which you should know as you are listed as a member.

The other 'club' is merely a client listing of one private company without any active membership exchange.

Can anyone else tell us something about this car and drivers please ?

ps Cathy bought me some tulips for St Valentines' Day

 

[Legendary5]

What on earth are you doing that early in the morning?
If I had to choose between a warm nice feeling Cathy or that cold screen I knew it for sure….

Oeps you are absolutely right, thanks for the correction. I will see to it, it will be changed.

It was a private entree with private car. In fact, both men where journalists.
They where sponsored by the names on the bonnet. That's all I know.

Works or private entrée on my site; that discussion we had earlier in this thread.
But since you are so fanatic in knowing the answers of this car; what’s behind this…...?