rahail240
Well-Known Forum User
That pics ace.
The car looks like a modem Aston from that angle.
Which is a bit of a Fourways theme I suppose (with the other Taylor cars)
-
The Z Club relies on the support of it's paid members - join the club or renew your membership here.
How much is a Z worth?
- Thread starter BlueZmobile
- Start date
That pics ace.
The car looks like a modem Aston from that angle.
Which is a bit of a Fourways theme I suppose (with the other Taylor cars)
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
JK240
Club Member
I'm sure some one (Duncan maybe) knows if this is still around.
But if that was 2004 and its still in the same place can you imagine what it might be like now
rallymanDP
Well-Known Forum User
Generically described as 'a Plant Pot' by JK and others in the Trade - a perfect description, as it has apparantly, by now, several small Saplings growing through it !
The last time I heard, the Owner expected to get at least £5k for it.
The last time I heard, the Owner expected to get at least £5k for it.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
£5k for a genuine UK car and Samuri to boot - ***** bargain you soul-savers -get on it !
Could be worth up to £50k when restored.
Could be worth up to £50k when restored.
BlueZmobile
Active Forum User
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
It is great to think that the 240z is becoming more valuable and perhaps justifiably appreciated. the obvious guide to a car appreciating is not so much what they are attempting to get but what they are actually changing hands for. So if you can get £25 k for a good Z then it suggests its worth this. I have noticed that one that was advertised for absolutely ages for £23k has now sold but I don't know if the asking price was achieved.
Has anyone more information on this?
I asked how many were left (estimated) in the uk a little time ago and it was less than 200 so when the numbers become so low surely that also increases the value ??
Has anyone more information on this?
I asked how many were left (estimated) in the uk a little time ago and it was less than 200 so when the numbers become so low surely that also increases the value ??
datsfun
Club Member
Umm not quite, rare does not mean desirable = valuable
I mean Metros, Sierra's, Cavaliers are getting thin on the ground, doesn't suddenly make them valuable
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Agreed and remember The Silence of the lambs.....'one does not covet something one doesn't see' : there have to be more Zs seen on the roads, circuits, rallyes, press articles etc to encourage their desirability....Zs are a victim of their own rarity and percieved parts sourcing problem.
Bluez....that seems a reasonable price for such a car and might imply that JD lassics' estimate of Big Sams' current value (nb after changing it's original spec) is rather inflated.......
BlueZmobile
Active Forum User
Agreed and remember The Silence of the lambs.....'one does not covet something one doesn't see' : there have to be more Zs seen on the roads, circuits, rallyes, press articles etc to encourage their desirability....Zs are a victim of their own rarity and percieved parts sourcing problem.
Bluez....that seems a reasonable price for such a car and might imply that JD lassics' estimate of Big Sams' current value (nb after changing it's original spec) is rather inflated.......
I would say more Z's racing and rallying will have the desired effect on price.
Interesting Z, apparently not only was it IMSA Championship winning car it was the very first car imported into the States. Agreed, JD may want £275k plus for Big Sam, but at £150k for the IMSA Z most probably places Big Sam at around the £120k mark.
rahail240
Well-Known Forum User
But you were willing to pay 30k over that with the engine in bits??
Would that still stand??
Throttleton
Well-Known Forum User
275k for big sam?
I know little about big Sam other than what I have read on here tbh, but my thoughts are you are paying (or not !) hundreds of thousands of pounds for the history.
If you chucked 100 grand to Duncan or any other company that does quality restorations on the car would he/they (she) not produce a car identical to big Sam and perhaps even better??
Is it big Sams logbook that is the main value??
I know little about big Sam other than what I have read on here tbh, but my thoughts are you are paying (or not !) hundreds of thousands of pounds for the history.
If you chucked 100 grand to Duncan or any other company that does quality restorations on the car would he/they (she) not produce a car identical to big Sam and perhaps even better??
Is it big Sams logbook that is the main value??
rallymanDP
Well-Known Forum User
Interesting you say that, Craig, because at about the time that Big Sam was sold at Auction, we did indeed quote a good Customer to build a replica at around the £85k mark, but also added that as the real thing was just about to go under the Hammer, why not buy it ? He was well funded to do so, and I bet he regrets not doing anything about it at the time.....
And of course a Replica doesn't have the provenance, does it, and I guess that is the measure of the value of the real thing.
Going back to the original question ( to come full circle on this thread ) - the scenario is this :
You have a Showroom & Workshop with about £15-20k million worth of the best Classic Sportscars that money can buy ( most of which you actually own ); you have premises about the size of the average Tesco's, and you clearly don't need to sell anything at all - in other words, you are living the Life that most of us dream about - you can just quote some ludicrous price to someone who is interested in buying the Stock that you have around the place.
It doesn't mean that that particular car has that specific Market Value, though, does it ?
And the corollary of that is - if you were to Insure it for that much ( say, £275k), and subsequently had to make a claim for a full loss, how could you justify that price to the Insurance Company - there has never been any precedent for a Sale at that figure, so what evidence could you produce ?
And of course a Replica doesn't have the provenance, does it, and I guess that is the measure of the value of the real thing.
Going back to the original question ( to come full circle on this thread ) - the scenario is this :
You have a Showroom & Workshop with about £15-20k million worth of the best Classic Sportscars that money can buy ( most of which you actually own ); you have premises about the size of the average Tesco's, and you clearly don't need to sell anything at all - in other words, you are living the Life that most of us dream about - you can just quote some ludicrous price to someone who is interested in buying the Stock that you have around the place.
It doesn't mean that that particular car has that specific Market Value, though, does it ?
And the corollary of that is - if you were to Insure it for that much ( say, £275k), and subsequently had to make a claim for a full loss, how could you justify that price to the Insurance Company - there has never been any precedent for a Sale at that figure, so what evidence could you produce ?
Throttleton
Well-Known Forum User
And of course a Replica doesn't have the provenance, does it, and I guess that is the measure of the value of the real thing.
That's what I'm on about Duncan. I mentioned a while back about ming vases.
They cost about 5p in materials so by comparison the steel value of the car is nothing.
A ming vase may be worth millions but is it down to how great the detail is or is it the history?
We know you can get a rust free shell from the states and you build a car for 100k (or 85k)
It might be the 'best Z ' in the world , miles better built than big Sam but is it then going up for 250k???
I still say you are going to pay for the logbook/history or whatever you want to call it.........
That's what I'm on about Duncan. I mentioned a while back about ming vases.
They cost about 5p in materials so by comparison the steel value of the car is nothing.
A ming vase may be worth millions but is it down to how great the detail is or is it the history?
We know you can get a rust free shell from the states and you build a car for 100k (or 85k)
It might be the 'best Z ' in the world , miles better built than big Sam but is it then going up for 250k???
I still say you are going to pay for the logbook/history or whatever you want to call it.........
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
....the last auction price ? Which many believe is the true market indicator of a cars' value.
Sorry, Big Sams' history is small fry in the S30s life - a newly prepared, circuit winning Z (ie with some serious victories under its' belt) could easily be valued at £120k without being one or several works shells and one championship win 38 years ago and no longer homologated for MSA/FIA historic racing.
Ok, I'm being 'hard' here but keep focused chaps and not be carried away by Saturday Spike Fever.
MikeB
Well-Known Forum User
The £275k is of course a "fishing expedition", hoping that someone, with their City bonus fresh in their pocket, will think they are getting a bargain by snapping it up at say £200k.
Big Sam is a significant Z in UK terms but due to it's non International history in that guise, would be limited in the top level Historic events it would be accepted in. For the sum being asked you could buy an original 911 RS or build a hot 911 ST copy that would be eligible for a wider range of events and hence be a better "investment" to a potential buyer.
Zeds have received quite a lot of coverage in the Classic mags over the past 12 - 18 months and I think are now on the radar of more punters, but will have to wait until the economic environment has improved before prices will start to rise. They are not yet seen as copper bottomed buys, £15-20k for top range usable cars seems to be the norm.
There was an interesting discussion recently on a 911 Forum where the professional restorers reckoned that they had to get the donor early 70s car for less than £10k to make a profit on a £45k fully restored sale. How do you scale that into the Z arena?
In the long term, original spec road cars and historic competition compliant machinery will generally get the best money, certainly that's how it works with other marques
Cheers
Mike
Big Sam is a significant Z in UK terms but due to it's non International history in that guise, would be limited in the top level Historic events it would be accepted in. For the sum being asked you could buy an original 911 RS or build a hot 911 ST copy that would be eligible for a wider range of events and hence be a better "investment" to a potential buyer.
Zeds have received quite a lot of coverage in the Classic mags over the past 12 - 18 months and I think are now on the radar of more punters, but will have to wait until the economic environment has improved before prices will start to rise. They are not yet seen as copper bottomed buys, £15-20k for top range usable cars seems to be the norm.
There was an interesting discussion recently on a 911 Forum where the professional restorers reckoned that they had to get the donor early 70s car for less than £10k to make a profit on a £45k fully restored sale. How do you scale that into the Z arena?
In the long term, original spec road cars and historic competition compliant machinery will generally get the best money, certainly that's how it works with other marques
Cheers
Mike
Throttleton
Well-Known Forum User
That sounds like normal business MikeB
25% materials, labour and overheads on top and make a reasonable profit.......
In fact good value I would say.
The guy who sells it for 45k pays his bills and takes a profit. There is no massive fortunes to be made in Z'z or 911's........
Unless the logbook suggests otherwise.............
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
£45k will not buy you a competitive historic racing Z - it will buy you a nice trackday fun-car.
You want profit on an historic (and competitive) Z : think closer to £85k minimum and even then, there's a better ratio of profit to be made on a nice road-track-day car at £45k.
The hours of preparation and specific parts to make a (key word - competitive) Z is enormous !
I'd be very surprised to see a £45k fully restored Porsche........
You want profit on an historic (and competitive) Z : think closer to £85k minimum and even then, there's a better ratio of profit to be made on a nice road-track-day car at £45k.
The hours of preparation and specific parts to make a (key word - competitive) Z is enormous !
I'd be very surprised to see a £45k fully restored Porsche........