East African Safari 2007!!! - U heard it here 1st!!

Does it really matter!

I have a feeling that they may even have entered as a 260Z before the deal was done to buy Duncan's car. I have another feeling that calling it a 260Z allows more modifications than if it was entered as a 240. Hence the abundance of 260's on this year's event. I may be wrong.......:conf2:
 
Hugh Myers said:
Does it really matter!

I have a feeling that they may even have entered as a 260Z before the deal was done to buy Duncan's car. I have another feeling that calling it a 260Z allows more modifications than if it was entered as a 240. Hence the abundance of 260's on this year's event. I may be wrong.......:conf2:
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'cos it blo*dy matters:rolleyes: ! A 260 isn't a 240 and there was a discussion elsewhere on the panet re the '75/76 Le Mans car that was entered as a 240 on a 260 rally registration !

Yes, it's important to some and I'm one of them ! Sneaky bandits, calling a 240 a 260 - shame even !:eek:
 
I don't think we are talking about standard cars here, Sean! Once you have removed the trim and changed the suspension, drive train and engine, it is probably neither 240 or 260 in anorak terms. However, we have all still rejoiced when a "240" won in 2003 and a "260" in 2005. I wonder if those two cars were related at all?

Come to think of it yours isn't exactly "stock" as our transatlantic cousins would call it! Do you call it a 240, 260 or 310?
 
Yeah......BUT to call a 240 a 260 in order to add all the bitz that are homologated for a 260 is going too far - the chassis number should determine the entry model....surely ?

Mine is a......fast car !

It doesn't say 240 on the outside, just 'Datsun' and there are enough 280ZX bitz on it to call it that too but mine aint a competition Z ! Just call it 'seanz'.........
 
SeanDezart said:
'cos it blo*dy matters:rolleyes: ! A 260 isn't a 240 and there was a discussion elsewhere on the panet re the '75/76 Le Mans car that was entered as a 240 on a 260 rally registration !

Yes, it's important to some and I'm one of them ! Sneaky bandits, calling a 240 a 260 - shame even !:eek:
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But what if it's a 240 with a 260 engine with all the interior stripped out and a new back panel fitted, who would know what it was.:conf2:
 
SeanDezart said:
It's still (or should be) entered as a 240Z !
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Yes you are right for once!:D but some official who isn't clued up on every single type of car, could pass it off as what it is entered as even if it's not.
 
I would think that officials are very well clued up on Datsuns as it is after all an historic rally! Every single 240/260 entered is such in name only. If you spend 50-120k on a rally car it very quickly becomes something entirely different except for the shape of the bodyshell. It's a rich mans event and I don't think the organisers are too worried if the car started life as a 240 or a 260.
 
Officials not being clued up on Datsuns is obviously an enormous advantage to those of us who are (and I admit that I'm a little player) !

That said, an HS30 is not a RS30 - it states quite clearly on the baulkhead, the registration papers (and FIA ones ?) and the silly little plate under the bonnet !

To have a 240Z classed as a 260Z needs some 'alteration'........and there are precious few 240Zs left, to 'cut' one up into a 260Z seems a shame !

Again, THAT, having said, there are even fewer 260Zs but that would be like making a an R432 and saying, 'there's one more' !
 


Sean
I think you're trying to be Albrect, but you simply can't be ?
as Alan does know the facts, & you just hazard a guess or make thing's up as you go along. The major entries in the East African safari have
predominantly featured 260z's in recent years & I for one have seen
fewer 240z entries. DJZ 60.:cool:
 
......off in the deep end again DJ ! This has nothing to do with the quantities of 240 V. 260 entries:) !

They're al Zs and that's great for us all - anything's better than a Ford.....:rolleyes:
 
My point is, any Z or for that matter, any Datsun entering such an
demanding & gruelling Safari (which means journey) deserves some
respect. Over the years in the 30 odd years,or more since the East
African safari has been held, Datsun's & Z's have established their
merit & you should leave it at that!
You imply that everything should be '240' ?
To me, a 260Z, is also a Z & any Z or Datsun should be taken seriously. DJZ 60.:cool:
 
DJZ 60 said:
You imply that everything should be '240' ?
To me, a 260Z, is also a Z & any Z or Datsun should be taken seriously.
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I'm implying NO such thing !

If it is a 240Z, then enter it as such, if it is a 260Z then do likewise ! Clear enough ?

I don't agree with entering a Z, whatever model, and claiming it to be another ! Clear enough ?

Al, Zs are taken seriously..........except 2+2s........:p !
 
Safari Z's

:D
I am no expert -but I can only say one thing and everyone who has seen the new 'breed' of Rally Z's will agree. The cars built for the Safari are nowhere near what they where homologated as.

The cars are modified so much that all you really have is the shell that is either a 240 / 260. For what it is worth, even the roll cages are so complex - gone are the days where you only had one "hoop" around the drivers!

Any car running in the Safari would be illegal here or in any other European event.

The organisers have to turn a blind eye to alot of the modifications - simply because if you took a "standard" rally car to Africa ... only one thing would happen .... from the port to the start ramp you will have blown all your dampers!!! I kid you not :D :D
 
BUT in your opinion, is a 240 a 240 and a 260 a 260, especially when CORRECTLY entered in such a race ?
 
The one thing you need to know is the Safari is a totally different Kettle of fish (Rally:D ).

a 240 IS a 240 if its what me and you know is a 240. What came off the production line as a 240z - a 240Z is not a 240z when you stick a 3.1 litre (that would be a 310Z) engine in it or v8 in it ..... I am going to wish i never said that!!! :D

Did you know that when Rob Collinge won the rally in 2003, alot of the top contenders put in a grievance? The Porches and Fords could not take the fact that a 2.4z kicked arse of the much more nimble fords and porches? Rob had to strip the engine to prove that the car was legitimate.

In 2005 he used the same shell and put in a 260 engine and entered it as a 260z.

Regulations say "Engine overbore beyond 60 thousandths of an inch over the manufacturers specification is not allowed"

If you entered the cars "correctly" - you would need an official that is so clued up with everything and every nut and bolt on the cars not just for Datsuns, but fords, Porches and the numerous other makes and models. Technically not possible and never going to be cost effective!!!

The regulations of the event open alot of things to "interpretation". For example Suspension, "Type and general layout must be original shape, design ....... then goes on to say .... additional shock absorbers are permitted" .... so the big boys us massive 55mm - 70mm fully adjustable, external cannister set-up!!! ;) Proflex, Reiger and the like .....

Imtiaz Dewji entered the Datsun 240z in 2003 (z farm prepared) that was a correctly entered car.

.... To appreciate what I am saying you need to see the Rally and the cars entered to compete in it.
 
hatari said:
The one thing you need to know is the Safari is a totally different Kettle of fish (Rally:D ).
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Sounds like a rich boys' jaunt, in the same league as Le Mans Classic albeit it tougher !

hatari said:
a 240 IS a 240 if its what me and you know is a 240. What came off the production line as a 240z - a 240Z is not a 240z when you stick a 3.1 litre (that would be a 310Z) engine in it or v8 in it ..... I am going to wish i never said that!!! :D
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hatari said:
Did you know that when Rob Collinge won the rally in 2003, alot of the top contenders put in a grievance? The Porches and Fords could not take the fact that a 2.4z kicked arse of the much more nimble fords and porches? Rob had to strip the engine to prove that the car was legitimate.
Click to expand...

But an engines' displacement doesn't signify the cars' model type and what would happen if he or anyone else had to prove that their (240Z) was a 260Z ?

hatari said:
In 2005 he used the same shell and put in a 260 engine and entered it as a 260z.
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Then it's not a 'serious' competition (or at least the scrutineering isn't), sorry, but my blinkered head tells me that an HS30 or HLS30 is not a RS30 or RLS30 !!!

hatari said:
.... To appreciate what I am saying you need to see the Rally and the cars entered to compete in it.
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No, that's what we have you for.....;)







hatari said:
a 240 IS a 240 if its what me and you know is a 240. What came off the production line as a 240z - a 240Z is not a 240z when you stick a 3.1 litre (that would be a 310Z) engine in it or v8 in it ..... I am going to wish i never said that!!! :D
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Well, I saved this one 'til last......my plate and chssis number says HLS30 - what is that then ?:rolleyes:
 

Different People(different heads) see things in different lights at differing moments. Rob Collinge entered it as a 260Z, possibly due to the 'power plant' being 2.6.
This is simular to the design team who specified model type to:
engine size i.e: 240z 2.4 , 260z 2.6 etc,etc,
At the same time,an overall view(it seem's) is more defined in
manufacture make,be it Datsun,Audi or whatever?
The 240z 0r 260z is a DATSUN Z . That's how it is.
safari's are not won purely because its a 240z. It could be won,even if it was a Datsun 1200 or a skyline. Its a collective thing thats detrimental in the outcome of the Safari. ( these are my thoughts)
Not from a book! Copyright DJZ 2007 :D
 
DJZ 60 said:

The 240z 0r 260z is a DATSUN Z . That's how it is.
safari's are not won purely because its a 240z. It could be won,even if it was a Datsun 1200 or a skyline. Its a collective thing thats detrimental in the outcome of the Safari.
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DJ, I give in, you've worn me out - that cigarette foil or smoke that you wrap your head in has managed to evade all reason entering - you win !

Yes, a 260Z is a Datsun Z, no Safari rallyes are not won just because a Z is a 240 (although the 260Z never did at the time) and no, a 1200 or Skyline couldn't (I assume) because they never officially ran in the event.
 
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