Johnymd wrote:
>...snipped...
>Now, if i'm going this way do I bother with all the 20 year old
>electrics and associated emmision toot or do I go aftermarket
>programable. Any idea how much the bumps up the cost.
>....snipped...
Hi Johnymd (everyone):
Pricing for after market Engine Management Systems seem's to run between $900.00 and $1800.00 here. Then for some reason there are other hidden costs. Buying a pre-tested program (fuel maps), or fine tuning your system on a chassis dyno takes dyno time.
Some very general information, it takes a book to get specific in this area. This will apply to projects aimed at the 250/275HP range and the intention of keeping the costs down. When it comes to performance the sky is the limit - so we'll limit this discussion. We'll also recognize that each project and each person are different. So there are no absolutes.
Most of the guys I know, start with a whole running car, to use for parts. Most of the time you want an 82/83 280ZX Turbo (the 81's came only as A/T). Most of the time they pay between $500.00 and $1000.00. (the lower the mileage and/or the better it runs the more it costs - most of these cars have bodies that are rusted beyond repair and over 150K miles).
If you shop the junk yards, you can pick up Turbo engines for around $150.00 to $250.00 if you pull them yourself. The advantage to buying running cars is that your not buying a complete pig-in-a-poke, and not knowing exactly what all you need to start with - you simply have more of your bases covered with a whole running car.
So $250 for the engine, $250 for the T-5, $175.00 for the R200... you might as well buy a whole car.
With the parts car you usually get the engine, transmission (T-5) and the 3.9 rear R200. If you want to run the factory Fuel Injection, you also get the wiring harness and ECU's.
If you can afford it, the aftermarket Engine Management Systems are the way to go. Fully programmable and distributor-less ignition are hard to beat. Add $1000.00 to $1500.00.
There are many cost trade-off's to be made along the way. The Factory Turbo Fuel Injectors for example cost about $145-$165.00 each, so it's easy to spend $700. on injectors alone. Arizona Z Car sells a custom Turbo Intake, that is much cleaner than the OEM set up for about $750.00 including a custom fuel rail - BUT you can then run standard GM injectors that cost about $65.00 each.. so what you spend on the manifold, you might save on injectors and fuel rails. Plus savings downstream if you have to replace the injectors.
http://www.arizonazcar.com/manifold.html
The OEM Turbo Pistons are fine up to around 11 lbs of boost - as a guess they run about $650.00. Aftermarket Forged Pistons, good for over 18 lbs of boost run about the same. Is it worth the extra money to provide for future upgrades if desired? Might as well over-bore it while your at it and pick-up a few more cc's... 0-ring the block, use ARP head studs...(where does it stop?;-)
Maybe the engine you wind up with doesn't need the bottom end rebuilt - do you rebuild it anyway? - just because you have it out of the car? (many people think that you can not get a rebuild done to the quality of the original engine. That is to say they would rather run a factory engine with 100K miles, than run a locally rebuilt engine. The long blocks in these cars are all but indestructible if they have had any care at all. So a rebuild on a good running engine is a complete waste of money if you stay below 300HP etc etc.
All these trade-off's, each person has to decide on their own, it's hard NOT to get carried away.
There are shops here that will build an L28 Turbo with 300+HP that you can drop in - usual cost to have everything done is around $7,000.00. That's with forged pistons, o-ringed block.
A few years ago for example:
370 RWHP at 15 psi boost (430 HP max at 21 psi) with Aria's at 8:1 CR, DI Total Seal, Plazma Moly Top rings, with block O-ring;
Leakage 3-5% after 60K mi over 8 years, some track time. Cost to build for a customer was $7K.
Starting with a good running 280ZX-Turbo - adding the external mod's... maybe less than $4K. While an inter-cooler is always recommended - you can run around 10 lbs of boost for shorter periods if you have a good engine management system. Most of the time, most of us would not be at full boost for more than a 15 seconds anyway.
Like I said, it would take a book to cover all the details, but hope this gives you some benchmarks to consider.
kind regards,
Carl
69, 70, 71, 72, 72 & 73 BRE Baja Z
280ZX Turbo for parts;-)
