Z racing at Le Mans

T

topman

I am interested in obtaining photos and technical specification of the Z that raced at Le Mans In 1975 entered by Hans Shuller can anyne help
 
As a side note, if you look at this months Octane magazine, I'm sure theres a Z in with a load of porsches (on possibly a story about Le Mans and Porsche) on the right hand page, top photo.

Anyone got this mag?
 
What do you want to know about the car - anything specific?

Don't be fooled by the number plate. That number was from quite a different car.

The Le Mans car was not a ex-Works rally car as its number would have people believe, but it WAS an ex-Works circuit-race car.
 
I couldn't believe the number of entries when I put Hans Schuller and Datsun into Google!

There's a pic of the car during the race (with a French plod ambling past) about half way down this page

Cheers - Gio
 
Yeah, it does look interesting. I didn't give it a full read (I'll do it later), just scanned over and looked at the pictures.

The picture of the Z432.
4 cylinders, 3 valves per & 2 cams' !!

That should read -
4 valves per, 3 carb's & 2 cams'

That S20 engine was shared with the Skyline GTR, a 1989cc 6 cylinder engine producing 160BHP @ 7000 rpm.

Are you going to tell him or am I ?
 
topman : I am interested in obtaining photos and technical specification of the Z that raced at Le Mans In 1975 entered by Hans Shuller can anyne help
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As I said, I have some information. However, you are going to have to let me know more specifically in what area your interest lies so that I can focus on what you want to know.

You also do not mention the 1976 event. The same car was entered both in '75 and '76, and in the '76 event the car crashed on the Mulsanne straight after it appeared to lose a wheel - sadly killing Andre Haller.

That car had a very interesting history that is not very well known. Most books, magazines, websites etc state that the car was an ex-Works rally car ( because of the number plate that was attached to it in the '75 event ) but this was NOT the case. The plate was on there for a reason, and the reason involved a certain amount of rule-bending to get the car into the race in the first place.

Let me know what you want to know and I'll try to help.
 
Hi Albrecht
have you thought abought an article on the car for the club magazine
Remember doing some reseach into that car and posting it up on the IZCC forum a few years back but since deleted file
Provence Moulage also released a resin &nbsp;1/32 scale kit of the car a few years ago
 
STEVE BURNS : Remember doing some reseach into that car and posting it up on the IZCC forum a few years back but since deleted file
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Did you research "TKS 33 SU 6466" ( the Works rally car ) or the Le Mans car? They were not the same car.

As I mentioned before, most magazine articles / books / websites etc. seem to take the presence of the Works rally car registration number as an indication that the Le Mans car was a Works-built rally car. In fact that number should not have been on the Le Mans car at all. Did your research draw the same conclusion? &nbsp;

This subject deserves a book rather than a magazine article.
 
Albrecht : This subject deserves a book rather than a magazine article.
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I remember it was all a bit strange

if you wanted to write something we could print it over a few issues would be nice to share your reseach with other members

have you seen our club mags if not previews of old issues are on the mainwebsite in the club shop section

Also trying to guess who you are with the ammount of reseach you have put into Zs you must be up with with Kevin Bristow, James Morris,Chris Gray and Guss van der Bol to name a few

also why "albrecht" have you done more reseach into this if so sure Carl Beck in the States would be interested
 
STEVE BURNS : quite a nice article can be found at 1975/76 lemans
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Yes - Chris Gray has done a LOT of good research on this car, and the article is now overdue for a re-write. Much more about the car is now known. Shows what can be done by an enthusiastic researcher who wants to get to the bottom of a story like this.  
I've been able to help in my own small way by filling in some history and background on the Works-built Japanese domestic race cars, and suggestions of where the car actually came from and what it actually started life as ( including identifying parts which pointed to its identity ).    
I won't steal his thunder by posting too much about it - that honour should go to Chris himself ( possibly with a new article ) - but the following is a taster:

*It appears that the same car WAS indeed used in both '75 & '76, and the presumption that the '76 car was a different car probably came from the fact that the engine capacity was quoted as larger in the '76 entry.
*It was NOT the ex-Works rally car registered "TKS 33 SU 6466" - although it used a registration plate with that number on it during the 1975 race.
*The car came to France from South Africa, having been used in two Springbok Series races there. Two Works-built 240ZR's were raced in the Springbok Series, with one of them being driven by two Japanese SCCN Works team drivers, and the other by two local drivers.
*Previous to racing in S.A. the car driven by the two local drivers was campaigned as a full Works SCCN team 240ZR in Japanese domestic races, with all the usual 240ZR aerodynamic parts and mechanicals. It is now thought that this was the car that was left in S.A. to contest the full Springbok Series ( cancelled after two races ) and then later went to Le Mans.
*The car was comprehensively destroyed in the crash that sadly proved fatal to Andre Haller, and its fate is so far unknown. Only the people who disposed of the remains of the car will know exactly what happened to it. However, the car that has been claimed to be the same car ( owned by M. Pierre Bourgoin in France ) is NOT the actual Le Mans car, despite what M. Bourgoin has claimed in a magazine article. Fortunately he now seems to be backtracking on this claim.

A certain amount of creativity and rule-bending seems to have been involved in getting the car into the race in '75. The attachment of the Works rally car registration plate seems to have been part of passing off the identity of the car as "6466" - perhaps convincing the ACO that the car would be legal to race.

Its perhaps best to be a little bit circumspect when pointing the finger with regard to any rule-bending issues, especially considering Haller's fate and the fact that Hans Schuller is also no longer with us.

Anyway, Chris will I am sure be updating his article in the near future. The story is not fully clear, but many questions have been answered.
 
Topman,
Thanks for your PM.
I'm PM'ing you back with some further info, including Chris Gray's direct e-mail address. I have told Chris that you are interested in the car too, and he said he would be happy to help you.
Look out for the PM.

Albrecht.

PS - did you notice that "TKS 33 SU 6466" was LHD and the Le Mans car was RHD?
 
STEVE BURNS : Also trying to guess who you are with the ammount of reseach you have put into Zs you must be up with with Kevin Bristow, James Morris,Chris Gray and Guss van der Bol to name a few
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forgot to mention Alan Thomas
 
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