Why build a Hybrid Z ?

[Russ]

Yeh, I'd really like to build the v8 myself though, if I ever went that route. Have ordered plenty of books tonight from Amazon on different builds and will look into it Also I want a pre-93 engine which I think negates the need for cats, can you build an LS6/7 with a pre 93 block?

 

[ZHead]

Way over my head which is why someone else is doing it for me

Would love to do it myself but do not have the time or expertise. A pre 93 engine presumably is an iron block whaich is a much easier conversion than the all aluminium engine because it has no need for an ecu.

 

[steven lack]

hi mk3zee
what better car than a zed is there to put what ever engine you like in it
anyhow
if i may just correct the following:
"Most of the most successful British specialist cars of all time would not exist were it not for American V8’s. from the AC Cobra to the Griff 500 (probably the best sounding ‘British’ exhaust note of all time. Even two of the most exclusive contemporary British sportscars owe their motivation to American V8’s"
Britsh Leyland did buy the 3.5ltr lump from " i believe buick as the 3ltr chrysler lump in our triumph stag was veryunreliable"and subsequently used it as the rover V8 that TVR developed very successfully,originally the buick motor company purchased the original engine from BMW it was the 3.2ltr V8 engine from the BMW 507, buick then enlarged it's cc but alas found favour with other engines for there cars and so, it was sold to B.L
nevertheless we would never of had such a great V8 if buick didnt buy it from BMW
the TVR 5ltr Griffith is an awesome motor

happy zedding
steve

 

[Black Bug]

I think mk3zee is refering to the heritage of the original TVR Griffith which had a similar story to the Cobra. Back in the '60s an American by the name of Griffith took a TVR Vixen, I believe maybe a Grantura, and bunged a Yank V8 in it, making for one very scary motor. Also the first TVR V8. The Rover V8 didn't come in to play in TVRland until the '80s Wedgies in 3.5, 3.9, 4.0 & 4.2 forms. Now whether from that it can be argued that the '90s Griffith would never have happened is vaguely debateable as there is a 20+ year gap from the '60s to the '80s when TVR started using V8s again. Obviously though if the '60s Griff hadn't happened then the '90s Griff sure wouldn't be called a Griffith!

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Mr.F]

The thing about the SBC is that the engine (isn't it based on a Rover or something silly like that, oh no other way round I think

What????

The original SBC was developed by GM for the 1955 series of cars - notably appeared in the Corvette and the first of the Tri-Chevy ('55-'57) saloons.

The Rover V8 is derived from an aluminium Buick V8.

There is no cross-over of design, parts or heritage between Rover / Buick and GM SBC.

 

[Black Bug]

I've heard an interesting and slightly humorous rumour that Buick licensed/bought 'a' V8 design from BMW in the '50s, although the rumour on the rumour is that BMW originally bought the design from GM. All a bit incestuous!

For what it is though, a small, light, medium capacity V8, capable of decent power, it's still a pretty good engine.

BTW, it's slightly humorous in that if it's true then Peter Wheeler's plan to never put a German engine in a TVR kinda backfired

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Gio]

originally the buick motor company purchased the original engine from BMW it was the 3.2ltr V8 engine from the BMW 507, buick then enlarged it's cc but alas found favour with other engines for there cars and so, it was sold to B.L
nevertheless we would never of had such a great V8 if buick didnt buy it from BMW

I was so intrigued by such a classic US V8 having its roots in poor old underengineered Europe that I went looking (aka wasting bytes at work ).

I could find other references to this story but nothing definitive. The BMW V8 that Steven mentions was the world's first aluminium 8 cylinder motor so it seems reasonable that Buick at least bought one to see it (just my own supposition).

But I did find some eerie echoes in the development of the BMW507.

... a delicious fantasy made real, not flashy, but dramatic and with a noble poise and powerful presence.

240Z anyone?

The 507 owed its development to the US importer who thought this car would give a

great chance to compete with the likes of Jaguar and Mercedes-Benz in the mid to upper echelons of the prestige car market.

and bent the collective ears of the manufacturer until they built it for the US market.

And in a final burst of synchronicity, it was designed by oh no not him again

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3400.asp?id=10507

http://www.autoswalk.com/worgreatcarb.html

http://autonet.ca/SunDrive/Toronto/.../Toronto/Saturday/2005/04/16/1002368-sun.html

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/articles.wiw/id/84

http://www.blackhawkauto.org/autocollection/profiles/bmw/bmw58.html

 

[steven lack]

black bug young man thankyou , my reply really was regarding the history from where the rover V8 came from , and as it was prior to my morning coffee , the brain was not engaged , yes you may very well be right as the early TVRS ran american V8s
lets face it thank god they did as they are awesome
i have over the years driven most of the TVRS , as i was selling them at one point or another and there fantastic to drive
see ya at jae

 

[zeeman1972]

zeeman, any chance of some pics in your gallery please? i would like to see the conversion .

Grolls, I'll try to put a few up over the next few days. The engine, new tank and one of my 260's which I was going to use as the base car is up there now.



I'm still deciding whether the shell of the car is sound enough to even start the transition. I have been offered a rust free SoCal 280Z which I'm tempted to purchase as a better base. However, I did ideally want a RHD car.



Decisions, Decisions,

 

[JEZ 280ZX]

"Grolls, I'll try to put a few up over the next few days. The engine, new tank and one of my 260's which I was going to use as the base car is up there now."


Hmmmm!...
That does look tasty!...Will it fit my Z31?

Cheerz,
JEZ

 

[ZHead]

ANYTHING will fit if you try hard enough

 

[grolls]

its not often i'm lost for words, the only ones i can come up with are,"you lot need your heads testing" bloody nutters the lot of you!....lol

 

[Gio]

The following link by Brian Willoughby gives an interesting insight into the hearts and minds of the protagonists of the so called Hybrid movement in Europe since the early 60’s, their logoic still applies today and is particularly relevant to the discussion on this thread.
http://www.breithaupts.com/totc196.htm

This article is interesting for four reasons.
1) His definition of hybrid:

These cars were the hybrids, an intriguing type of car that combined exclusive European design and coach building with mass-produced American-made power trains.

Any mention of Japan? Nope.
2) He further explains the raison d'etre of hybrids

hybrids offered several benefits to their invariably small, underfinanced manufacturers. Frequently lacking the funding to design a new car from the ground up, the classic hybrid evolutionary scheme centered around a chassis engineered by the hybrid manufacturer, bodywork executed by a famous designer or design house (usually, though not always, working out of Italy) and an American V8 engine sourced from Chrysler, Ford or one of the General Motors divisions. After investing everything they could muster into creating a competent chassis and body shell, hybrid makers were left with no choice other than to use an off-the-shelf engine from America, which, while cruder and less efficient than the leading European designs, were, nonetheless, inexpensive, well-made, well-respected and, perhaps most importantly, thoroughly proven.

So hybrids are designed as new cars to benefit from the best of the US and the best of Europe. Wouldn't disagree with his points in the slightest. But I wouldn't describe Nissan as a small underfinanced manufacturer ... lacking funding to design a new car.
3) It's from a publication called [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Tales of Toy Cars[/font][/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], a monthly publication."
4) Nowhere in his article does he mention engine transplants or Japanese - he is just talking about originally designed new cars from Europe. So perhaps not the most apposite choice of support material for his thesis.

hehehe coat holder (not hangar)
[/font]

 

[Gio]

correction of inaccurate quote

 

[ZHead]

You forgot the bit about "cruder and less efficient". Still, I suppose that if the article wasn't written about your home transplant scenario, then you can ignore it.

Back in the 60s or 70s that comment would definitely have stood up, not sure about today though, modern yank engines like the latest Chevy lumps (405BHP, 400ft lbs and nearly 30 to the gallon on a run) are pretty well made, the japanese engines chosen for hybrids like the RB series or the Nissan V8s are equally superb engines. A lot of kit car stuff I have seen has been built around the Ford V6, love it or hate it you have to admit it is a decent engine.

If a small manufacturer can "buy in" engines to save R&D and production cost then I see no reason why an aftermarket swap should not be just as valid. There is nothing wrong with the L series engine, I loved mine in my previous cars but I think a lot of hybrid conversions are done "because you can" rather than because there is anything wrong with what was there in the first place.
More of an engineering journey to see what you can achieve really.

 

[Gio]

If a small manufacturer can "buy in" engines to save R&D and production cost then I see no reason why an aftermarket swap should not be just as valid.

OK but it was interesting for whateverhisname was to quote an article about manufacturer designed hybrids in defence of aftermarket home transplant. Worthy of Roger Irrelevant IMHO. Wibble.

 

[ZHead]

True Gio - thinking about it there are loads of "manufactured hybrids", probably more in the 60s and 70s than now but it is a good point and one that had eluded me (can only think of one thing at a time, that's probably why )

I wonder if some enterprising soul made space frames and dropped fibreglass Z bodies on top with modern brakes and suspension and a bought in Hybrid engine whether a new breed could be born ? Would be a superb car but probably way out of kilter with modern requirements.

 

[zeeman1972]

Now there's an idea !

 

[gav sbc]

I have to agree here. One guy says he doesn't like them, another guy throws all his toys out the pram and all of a sudden this site is full of anti-V8 sentiment - what a load of rubbish.

It's your car, you do what you like with it. Got no problem with any engine you want to put in it.

I am yet to see a Z with a V8 in it (Ratz excluded, not a road car), so am yet to be impressed by one. I look forward to the day when one comes to a meet, grab me as a passenger and drive like a man possessed. I'm sure I'll be very impressed.

Hi I would love to come along to a meet with my chevy Z32 but have i have not wanted to upset the guys at the shows so far. This is a real road car full trim tax and test and very quick. When is the next meet.
Gavin

 

[zeeman1972]

Hi Gavin,

Where are you based? Would love to have a look at your car!

Most of the show/meetings details are on the calendar on the home page, if you click on any underlined date it'll take you to a page to explain what and where the event is.

All the best

Steve